Industries with their own rollingstock

[Ralph]

That's cool Gary! Here is a KP&W 50 footer. For some reason I couldn't get Word to give me an ampersand in the NY State map image so I gave up!



Ralph

[Gary S]

Thanks Ralph. Looks like I also need to change the lettering style in the state logo to "straight-up-and-down" letters rather than leaning letters. No problem! The Testors inkjet decal system actually works pretty good. Just takes time to let the various steps dry completely.

[Gary S]

Ralph, what era are you modeling?

DocWayne: I think I just need a new camera! I mean, a camera that has to have a 3.5 floppy inserted in it? That's like an artifact, isn't it?

[doctorwayne]

DocWayne: I think I just need a new camera! I mean, a camera that has to have a 3.5 floppy inserted in it? That's like an artifact, isn't it?

Hey, if it works, why tamper with it? On the other hand, though, it should be easy enough to convert it from a coal-burner to an oil-burner.

Wayne

[Ralph]

Thanks Ralph. Looks like I also need to change the lettering style in the state logo to "straight-up-and-down" letters rather than leaning letters. No problem! The Testors inkjet decal system actually works pretty good. Just takes time to let the various steps dry completely.

Actually Gary I think in the future I'll make the letters in the state map slanted to be consistent with the rest.

I model the Penn Central era 1968-75.

Ralph

[Gary S]

I'm doing late 70s so a boxcar from the KP&W should fit right in. I'll omit the roofwalks if you don't mind.

I've been looking around to see what boxcars I have available. About all I have right now is double door forties and double door fifties.

[dave1905]

So where does the industry keep the empties?

The industry would have to build storage tracks for its cars or lease storage from the railroad or another industry. Private cars on private track are not subject to car hire or demurrage.

And when a customer of the industry orders a load, I guess as long as the industries own cars are available, they would use those for shipping the load?

And the company would pay the railroad a switching charge to move the car from the storage track to the industry.

What if all the industry's cars were in use? Where would the needed empties come from?

If the cars were general service cars or general service cars could be used they would order empties from the rairroad just like any other industry. It is pretty unlikely that the cars would be general service cars. So if the industry ships tank cars and it runs out of empties to load, it doesn't load any cars. At many chemical and auto parts plants the empty cars are often "hotter" than the loaded cars. Teh plant will track where the empties are more closely than the loads.

Would the indutry's cars typically be in captive service?

Private cars and that's what they would be, are captive in that the car owner determines where they are loaded and where they go. So the empty private cars would always go back to wherever the company has said to send them. Now if they send 100 tanks each to plants A and B and it turns out that plant B needs 125 cars, the industry can have the railroad move 25 cars from A over to B, but they will be "revenue empties" and considered a "load" because the railroad will get paid and the cars will have a revenue waybill on it.

[Gary S]

I see what you mean, Dave.

Now can you help me understand this....

My industry produces a product which is shipped in covered hoppers. I have a fleet of 20 private cars which serves my weekly needs, but occasionally I need more cars. So my industry would order empties from the serving railroad? And what if they don't have any empties? What happens then?

Thanks in advance for all the info you are giving in both threads!!

Gary

[dave1905]

I see what you mean, Dave.
My industry produces a product which is shipped in covered hoppers. I have a fleet of 20 private cars which serves my weekly needs, but occasionally I need more cars. So my industry would order empties from the serving railroad? And what if they don't have any empties? What happens then?

All covered hoppers are not created equal. It depends on what type of hoppers and what type of product. If its any product other than grain, fertilizer, soda ash, potash, sand, cement or something else that can be put in a generic gravity unloaded covered hopper (such as plastic pellets or flour) then the railroad may not own cars suitable for your load.

If you use all your cars and they don't have cars, then you stop shipping until your empties come back.

To figure how many cars you need, take the transit time to the average destination, double it, add two or three days for unloading and multiply by the number of cars per day you load. Figure on a car moving at about 15 mph and taking 16-24 hours at every yard it goes through. So if your average shipment takes 7 days to get to the customer and you load 5 cars a day, that would mean you would need 7 + 7 + 3 time 5 cars or 85 cars. That assumes no cars break and your customers unload on arrival. Obviously you don't need that many cars on a model railroad, but that gives you an idea on your fleet size.

[Gary S]

Dave, that is alot of cars!

One more question:

Let's say an industry on a shortline uses plain old everyday boxcars for shipping. They don't have their own cars. When they need empties, do they order them from the serving railroad? And what would happen if the serving railroad had no available boxcars at the moment. Would the railroad order an empty from another railroad?

[dave1905]

Dave, that is alot of cars!
Let's say an industry on a shortline uses plain old everyday boxcars for shipping. They don't have their own cars. When they need empties, do they order them from the serving railroad? And what would happen if the serving railroad had no available boxcars at the moment. Would the railroad order an empty from another railroad?

Two options, which depend on how the shortline was created.
If the shortline was spun off a class one railroad post Staggers, then the lease/purchase agreement probably provided that the selling class one would provide cars for the industries to load. Many variations on this contract, but the jist is the same. In that case the shipper might order cars from the class one or the shipper might order cars from the shortline who in turn orders from the class one.
If the shortline was originally an independent road, then it they have a little more freedom and a little bigger problem. They can ask the line haul roads they connect with for empties since the line haul roads will participate in the revenue. But the line haul roads aren't obligated to give them cars. If cars are tight the line haul road may choose to supply its customers with cars.

Obviously if there are no cars available then the plant doesn't ship anything or ships less until cars come available. Used to happen all the time with boxcars (why IPD boxcars were created), grain hoppers in harvest season (higher capy cars, longer trains, unit trains and tighter management of unit trains pretty much ended that) and gondolas in the late 1970's early 80's.