Grand Canyon Railway - steam is back!

[nachoman]

I wish I could say that I'm pleased... but I'm not. 4 measley weekends for the entire year and ONE complete roundtrip to the canyon and back in September. Plus, like you said, during the 4 weekends, they are only doing 8 mile round trips. What kind of waste of time is that? Pathetic. Sounds like attendance has dropped (understandably so) and they are grasping at anything to bring the people back. Still, I guess it's better than nothing.

That's business for ya. Considering there is no economic reason to run the steam engine at all, you are right, it is better than nothing.

[Russ Bellinis]

Since they are running the locomotive with recycled cooking grease, I wonder if the engine's thirst for fuel outstrips their supply? Even if they were to pick up all of the old grease from every restaurant in town, Williams is a small town.

[nachoman]

Since they are running the locomotive with recycled cooking grease, I wonder if the engine's thirst for fuel outstrips their supply? Even if they were to pick up all of the old grease from every restaurant in town, Williams is a small town.

Xanterra, the parent company, owns all the hotels and concessions at the south rim and in many national parks, so they have a decent supply of oil. The railroad is not financially supported by railfans - it is supported by general grand canyon tourists - most of whom could not tell a steam from a diesel. The only reason they have steam to begin with is that the previous owner liked trains.

[nkp_174]

during the 4 weekends, they are only doing 8 mile round trips.

8 miles of steam is about 10,000x better than 0 miles. Sounds like the complete trip in September will do well.

It absolutely makes sense to run the steam some as the 4960 has boiler time left.

[nachoman]

8 miles of steam is about 10,000x better than 0 miles.

Plus, from a scenery standpoint, this line is the most scenic within 8 miles of williams or within 8 miles of the grand canyon. If you aren't going to run the whole route, there is not much interest in traveling more than 8 miles.

[Brakie]

"Fueled by waste vegetable oil "

Ok..That mean's if you smell french fries and no fast food joints around then its "steam time!".

[ezdays]

How disappointing that they couldn't run all summer like they used to. We've taken the ride several times and have yet to be pulled by steam mainly because we went just a bit ahead of the busy season. Now it doesn't look like we'll ever have that chance. Rather than citing "environmental issues" as the primary reason for the change, they should be frank and tell it like it is, purely economics. I'm sure the cost of using steam engines is far greater than the cost of diesel, yet I think they'd get a higher ridership rate if they stuck to steam. They could even charge a premium for the steam rides, I'd be willing to pay extra just for that pleasure.

[nkp_174]

I'm sure the cost of using steam engines is far greater than the cost of diesel, yet I think they'd get a higher ridership rate if they stuck to steam. They could even charge a premium for the steam rides, I'd be willing to pay extra just for that pleasure.

That's the White Pass's approach. Steam will boast your business some, but whether it is worth the hassle/cost is dependent upon how much it boasts the ridership. The White Pass is now operating two steam locomotives...but the majority of their 900,000 passengers (or whatever it's up to) ride behind diesels.

[TrainNut]

The White Pass is now operating two steam locomotives...but the majority of their 900,000 passengers (or whatever it's up to) ride behind diesels.

Are you saying they ride behind the diesels by choice or is that based off of operating logisitics?

[nachoman]

Rather than citing "environmental issues" as the primary reason for the change, they should be frank and tell it like it is, purely economics.

I think you are suggesting that a business be honest Even though they are always trying to increase or preserve their profit margins, they try to cover it up with other gimmicks -

"We installed self checkouts to serve you better";
"We are slashing prices" (in hopes you don't notice the increased shipping & handling charge )
"we are being environmentally friendly!" (in the hopes that you will buy more)

Now if a business was honest you would hear:
"We have cut customer service so that we can make more money"
"we've added hidden fees so that we can make more money"
"we have latched on to a feel-good endeavor, so the we can make more money"

Even though that is what they are doing, it just doesn't sound as appealing

[nachoman]

Are you saying they ride behind the diesels by choice or is that based off of operating logisitics?

I think they let the steam engine pull some trains out of town, and then hook the diesels up for the rest of the trip. I think they still run special steam trains over the whole line a few times a year. I've never ridden this line - this is only what I read elsewhere. I'd bet that 90% of the passengers don't know the difference between steam and diesel, anyway.

[ezdays]

Rather than citing "environmental issues" as the primary reason for the change, they should be frank and tell it like it is, purely economics.

I think you are suggesting that a business be honest Even though they are always trying to increase or preserve their profit margins, they try to cover it up with other gimmicks -

"We installed self checkouts to serve you better";
"We are slashing prices" (in hopes you don't notice the increased shipping & handling charge )
"we are being environmentally friendly!" (in the hopes that you will buy more)

Now if a business was honest you would hear:
"We have cut customer service so that we can make more money"
"we've added hidden fees so that we can make more money"
"we have latched on to a feel-good endeavor, so the we can make more money"

Even though that is what they are doing, it just doesn't sound as appealing

Yep,
"We have moved customer service to a non-English speaking country in order to serve you more efficiently". Rather than, "our 800# charges costs us the same no matter where the phone gets answered, and of course, we pay these people a fraction of what we would pay their more knowledgeable, and understandable counterparts".

"We have cut down the size of (fill in the blank) in order to save you (check one or more of the following): money, time, room, weight, calories, waste..., even though the product size and looks remain the same."

"We have cut the cost of (fill in the blanks here) in order to save you money, but have made many of it's features and services cost optional." Oh, we now pay more for less this way...

"Yes indeed, this product comes to you absolutely free of charge, just pay the modest shipping and handling fees." There lies the profit, it's in the S/H which far exceeds the value of the "free" product...

[ocalicreek]

My family and I were at the Mt. Hood railroad a few years back for a Day Out with Thomas the Cash, er, Tank Engine when the 2-8-0's were there. In fact, one was being worked on that very day. I'll see if I have some pictures on the computer somewhere...

I've never ridden the GCRy, but I did get a chance to railfan it back in 1998. A buddy and I were traveling from Florida to California via the Grand Canyon (and a few other scenic highlights like New Orleans, OK City, and Vegas). When we visited the canyon we approached from the E, and didn't leave much time for exploring the depot. IN fact, we never saw it. hock:

But the next morning we got up early enough to drive from Flagstaff where we had stayed towards Williams in time to see puffs of smoke coming through town. We chased the train north as far as we could then stopped at a dirt road to photograph. We were shooting from the West since we didn't want to drive up the road over the tracks. Turns out we probably could have as there were a few other folks on the other side that morning who were probably railfans. Oh well. At least we got to see it barrel by under STEAM. I don't remember which engine it was.

Good memories.

Galen

[ocalicreek]

These images were captured on June 29, 2007 at a Day Out with Thomas event.

   

   

   

   

#18 was getting worked on, and that's her face on the ground (smokebox door...hey, I was at a Thomas day! HE has a face...) 20 was sidelined and that's the best shot I could get from a distance.

I remember reading an article in Trains or R&R about those engines...not too long ago IIRC.


Galen

[nkp_174]

Are you saying they ride behind the diesels by choice or is that based off of operating logisitics?

I think they let the steam engine pull some trains out of town, and then hook the diesels up for the rest of the trip. I think they still run special steam trains over the whole line a few times a year. I've never ridden this line - this is only what I read elsewhere. I'd bet that 90% of the passengers don't know the difference between steam and diesel, anyway.

The White Pass operates "steam trains" as specials...once per day May 5-Sept 24. It is a shorter run than the diesel powered trains.

Having grown up with a father who restored mainline passenger cars and co-founded a group which restored and operates a mainline excursion steam locomotive (the only 4-wheel trailing truck currently operational east of Cheyenne), I can assure you that most promoters will use diesels if they can sell out their trips without steam. Sometimes, steam is the draw, other times it isn't. The repatriating of WP&Y #69 seems to imply that the demand on the White Pass is a mix...steam benefits sales, but most of the business is based on the scenery.