Tempted to Convert to DCC/Sound?

[RobertInOntario]

I mainly model British outline 00 (quite similar to HO) trains and my current layouts use direct-current. British manufacturers have apparently lagged a few years behind their North American counterparts in terms of adding sound to their locos.

Hornby, one of the major British MRR companies, is now offering more and more locos equipped with sound — the 2010 range of sound-equipped locos looks very tempting!

So far, I’ve decided against DCC mainly because of the cost and because about half of my 30 some odd locos are from the 1960s and ‘70s. DCC also seems very complicated.

I understand that, in order to use the full range of sound options, sound-equipped locos should ideally be run via DCC. A few of my newer locos are already DCC-ready. But I believe it would be too difficult to convert my 1960s Triang and Hornby Dublo locos to DCC.

Just curious to find out what other folks, in similar situations to mine, have done. Have they “shelved” their older locos and switched completely to DCC or have they created two layouts, i.e. one that is DC and one that is DCC?

I also just asked at a LHS how much it would cost to convert a fairly-new loco to DCC and they said it would be close to $200 per loco, which I certainly can’t afford! Also, most new sound-equipped/DCC Hornby locos cost about double the price of what a non-sound loco would cost — again, the cost is really discouraging me.

On the other hand, this new line of sound-equipped DCC locos is still very tempting and I think I should be using 21st century technology rather than 1960s technology! Plus, it would be so cool to control 2-3 locos remotely and to hear the "peep-peep" and chuffing sounds.

Thanks in advance for any feedback or suggestions.

Rob

[Gary S]

My situation isn't quite like yours, but here are my thoughts:

I got into model railroading right before sound was becoming readily available. I purchased 10 or so non-sound units of various types. But then sound came out... at first, I didn't care about sound. But then I bought one sound-equipped loco and the bug bit me. I have already successfully added sound to an Athearn CF7 and have a couple more to do. The rest of my existing fleet is non-sound P2K and Atlas, and it isn't quite so easy to pack a speaker into those. So, I am going to bite the bullet and purchase several more sound equipped locos to round out my fleet. As for the non-sound locos, I guess they will get sold off at rock bottom prices.

[jglfan]

I'm not familiar with the construction of your older locos, you need to isolate the frame from both rails and find room for a decoder. The $200 you mention is about right for sound I guess, I think it could be closer to $150. Bear in mind you don't need sound in every loco! I guess some folk no longer want to run non sound locos once they get used to sound, but I run both sound equipped and non sound equipped. You can put a non sound decoder in for $15. I've got locos from the 70's with decoders in them.

[Puddlejumper]

I think you will be very satisfied with DCC. It should not be too hard to convert your older units to DCC. Sound may be another story. Keep in mind that not every unit need have sound. I have found that even one sound equipped unit in a consist is very convincing and satisfying. If you have 2 or 3 units in a consist with sound it can become somewhat irritating.

[RobertInOntario]

I'm not familiar with the construction of your older locos, you need to isolate the frame from both rails and find room for a decoder. The $200 you mention is about right for sound I guess, I think it could be closer to $150. Bear in mind you don't need sound in every loco! I guess some folk no longer want to run non sound locos once they get used to sound, but I run both sound equipped and non sound equipped. You can put a non sound decoder in for $15. I've got locos from the 70's with decoders in them.

Thanks for this feedback. I sometimes get the two topics mixed up here. Yes, I don't need sound in all locos -- I'd be happy if I could at least convert some of the old ones to DCC (and simply have only a few sound locos). So there might be hope for some of the older ones. Rob

[Steamtrains]

There are as many opinions about DCC, as there are modelers. DCC can be as simple as disconnecting your DC pack from the layout, and connecting your DCC "pack" to it. If you've got DCC "ready" locos, just pop a decoder into them, program an address into it (should take all of 30 minutes), and off you go...From this "bare bones" approach you can take it as far as you want or can....
For older locos you don't need to isolate the frame, you need to isolate the motor from the frame. The frame will generally have one of the 2 "poles" from the track, which you don't want if you're working with DCC as the motor will be receiving current directly from the decoder.
As for sound....from the many videos I have seen of locos with sound...I think I like the quiet clickety-clack more than the snorting, buffing, chuffing, whine of the locos.....
Hey...It's YOUR train...run it any way you please....

[RobertInOntario]

There are as many opinions about DCC, as there are modelers. DCC can be as simple as disconnecting your DC pack from the layout, and connecting your DCC "pack" to it. If you've got DCC "ready" locos, just pop a decoder into them, program an address into it (should take all of 30 minutes), and off you go...From this "bare bones" approach you can take it as far as you want or can....
For older locos you don't need to isolate the frame, you need to isolate the motor from the frame. The frame will generally have one of the 2 "poles" from the track, which you don't want if you're working with DCC as the motor will be receiving current directly from the decoder.
As for sound....from the many videos I have seen of locos with sound...I think I like the quiet clickety-clack more than the snorting, buffing, chuffing, whine of the locos.....
Hey...It's YOUR train...run it any way you please....

Thanks, this does seem to sum it up. I also realize that there are a wide variety of opinions on this topic.
Rob

[BR60103]

Robert:
The old Hornby Dublo locos are a major conversion problem as the chassis casting is solid from the axle holes to the motor brush.
Old TriAng is a simple conversion as the motor brushes are totally accessible and the first step is just to put another insulating sleeve on the brush that isn't insulated. Then break the existing wire on the other side and hook up the decoder wires. I don't think it shoul cost $200 unless it includes a sound decoder.
The Pancake motors (the tender drive units and the same drive in diesels) may be a bit more problem.
Sound units, though, could be more problem -- matching to the locomotive.
You may be able to run the sound units on DC with a separate sound controller; I do this with Dayle's Galloping Goose.

[andersley]

When I 'converted' to DCC, my layout was wired for DC complete with section switches. So I just removed the switches and connected all the sections as one feed (I was already using live frog turnouts and the isolations were fine for DCC).

I run the layout with DCC of course, but have a two-way toggle switch so I can flip back to run DC - useful for tsting a new locomotive before fitting a decoder. So your layout could be done the same, enabling you to run your older locos (but not at the same time as your DCC fitted ones).

Decoders are very easy to fit and quite cheap (9 pounds here in the UK). They can easily be hard-wired in a non DCC-ready loco. Sound is another dimension, but as has been mentioned, not all locomotives need to be sound fitted - indeed that can be a bit overpowering! When I modelled British OO trains, I used South West Digital sound decoders. They do a good range for UK locos. http://www.southwestdigital.co.uk/

Good luck with your endeavours.

[faraway]

Might be doing the big step from DC to sound makes it more complicated than necessary.
How about to go to DCC with a limited set of engines first? After that is setup and you installed a DCC decoder in some engines you might want to do sound installation in some other engines.
The reason why is the complexity of sound decoder installation due to the extra space required by the speaker and baffle. A pure DCC decoder is a good test case to get used to the requirements e.g. isolation of both motor sides, adequate lamp/LED wiring etc. The programming of sound decoders is also more complex than plain DCC decoders.
The "conversion" of the layout can be very simple for a small layout. Remove all DC engines than swap the DC pack with the DCC controller and you are set. In any case is a good starting point for testing. You will learn later if additional wiring, boosters etc. are required.

When I did the conversion my very friendly local hobby shop lent me a DCC controller, power pack and two DCC equipped engines for a weekend (he did good business on Monday with me:-). May be you have a local dealer or good friend with an easy to remove DCC controller for a test session?

Good luck

[RobertInOntario]

Robert:
The old Hornby Dublo locos are a major conversion problem as the chassis casting is solid from the axle holes to the motor brush.
Old TriAng is a simple conversion as the motor brushes are totally accessible and the first step is just to put another insulating sleeve on the brush that isn't insulated. Then break the existing wire on the other side and hook up the decoder wires. I don't think it shoul cost $200 unless it includes a sound decoder.
The Pancake motors (the tender drive units and the same drive in diesels) may be a bit more problem.
Sound units, though, could be more problem -- matching to the locomotive.
You may be able to run the sound units on DC with a separate sound controller; I do this with Dayle's Galloping Goose.

Thanks, David. One guy at a train show once told me that Triang locos were easy to convert but it makes sense that Dublo ones would be difficult. Have you ever considered DCC or sound?

I went to the Barrie train show today (it was excellent) and I got some advice there. Apparently, you can convert gradually, i.e. one loco at a time and have you layout as part DC and part DCC.

Rob

[RobertInOntario]

Might be doing the big step from DC to sound makes it more complicated than necessary.
How about to go to DCC with a limited set of engines first? After that is setup and you installed a DCC decoder in some engines you might want to do sound installation in some other engines.
The reason why is the complexity of sound decoder installation due to the extra space required by the speaker and baffle. A pure DCC decoder is a good test case to get used to the requirements e.g. isolation of both motor sides, adequate lamp/LED wiring etc. The programming of sound decoders is also more complex than plain DCC decoders.
The "conversion" of the layout can be very simple for a small layout. Remove all DC engines than swap the DC pack with the DCC controller and you are set. In any case is a good starting point for testing. You will learn later if additional wiring, boosters etc. are required.

When I did the conversion my very friendly local hobby shop lent me a DCC controller, power pack and two DCC equipped engines for a weekend (he did good business on Monday with me:-). May be you have a local dealer or good friend with an easy to remove DCC controller for a test session?

Good luck

Thanks, this sounds realistic and is similar to some of the advice I received at a train show today -- that is, to convert gradually. It especially makes sense to start off with just a few DCC locos and then move into sound.

Rob

[Green_Elite_Cab]

So far, I’ve decided against DCC mainly because of the cost and because about half of my 30 some odd locos are from the 1960s and ‘70s. DCC also seems very complicated.

I understand that, in order to use the full range of sound options, sound-equipped locos should ideally be run via DCC. A few of my newer locos are already DCC-ready. But I believe it would be too difficult to convert my 1960s Triang and Hornby Dublo locos to DCC.

DCC itself isn't complicated until you get into programming special features or installing them in odd-ball equipment. If you have a reliable decoder, You can be guaranteed that your engine will work with little input on your side. TCS (train Control Systems) tends to have very user-friendly decoders, and their warranty is also super friendly (even if you break it, they will replace it free).

If you need to wire something, we can probably help you here until you get the wires and such memorized.

Have you checked to see if your old equipment has a superior chassis out there? I had to do that for a few of my models. In general, as attached as you are to your old stuff, it may be better to either upgrade the parts or replace them with a newer model. Old engines do not always work well with DCC, just by the nature of their motors. they can wear the decoder out, and even if they don't, the locomotive itself may not run much better than it did.

Just curious to find out what other folks, in similar situations to mine, have done. Have they “shelved” their older locos and switched completely to DCC or have they created two layouts, i.e. one that is DC and one that is DCC?

Yeah, most of my fleet is shelved. at the same time however, i only install DCC in locomotive i know I'll use, since i collect locomotives that match my region. that's why many of my six axle diesels sit on the shelf, while my 4 axle GPs, electrics, and commuter engines all have DCC since i run them regularly. If you itch to run an engine, save up for a decoder. if you set aside $5 and some change every week, by the end of the month, you can get a new decoder.

I also just asked at a LHS how much it would cost to convert a fairly-new loco to DCC and they said it would be close to $200 per loco, which I certainly can’t afford! Also, most new sound-equipped/DCC Hornby locos cost about double the price of what a non-sound loco would cost — again, the cost is really discouraging me.

did you mean upgrade an engine, or to buy a DCC set? Most good sets approach $200, but its a one-time cost. if they sell NCE systems out there, get the Power-cab. they are about as reliable as they get, and you get the most bang for the buck.

if you meant converting an old locomotive to DCC, that usually only costs as much as the decoder, and i don't think i know of any single HO decoder that costs $200. The decoders i buy are excellent and usually only cost between $20-$35. more often then not they literally plug right in. Even if you were to go with sound, it wouldn't cost you $200 to upgrade one with a sound decoder, it would be more like half of that even for a high-end sound decoder.

On the other hand, this new line of sound-equipped DCC locos is still very tempting and I think I should be using 21st century technology rather than 1960s technology! Plus, it would be so cool to control 2-3 locos remotely and to hear the "peep-peep" and chuffing sounds.

The operational benefits are superior. things work more efficiently, and wire more efficiently. I'd save sound for only your most favorite or special units. the only engine i went out of my way to install sound in was a Diesel Commuter engine that had been a favorite of mine, both the model and the prototype.

[tetters]

Hey Robert.

The only experience I have with DC is the old Tyco Power Packs that my uncle and I used to control a 4x8 when I was a young teenager. So we never did do any complex block wiring or such. However, having dabbled in DC circuits when wiring up Tortoise Switch Machines for turnouts and a double x-over I was literally brain fried with the amount of wiring I had to do.

DCC to me is a breeze, its easy to work with, install, wire, and quite user friendly once you get over the fear when reading all the about jargon about programming CV's and such. For someone just getting into the hobby like me, limited locomotive fleet etc, I guess I don't feel the sting of cost to upgrade as in my case its just part of experience while building my layout.

I will say, this though. I started off shaking my head and thinking, "I don't need sound." when I first purchased my Power Cab. Well, guess what? After hearing my favorite GP7 "fire up" its engine for the first time yesterday evening, blow its horn, clang its bell and accelerate down a short section of track I can assure you of one thing.

I was most definitely grinning from ear to ear.

[RobertInOntario]

Hey Robert.

The only experience I have with DC is the old Tyco Power Packs that my uncle and I used to control a 4x8 when I was a young teenager. So we never did do any complex block wiring or such. However, having dabbled in DC circuits when wiring up Tortoise Switch Machines for turnouts and a double x-over I was literally brain fried with the amount of wiring I had to do.
DCC to me is a breeze, its easy to work with, install, wire, and quite user friendly once you get over the fear when reading all the about jargon about programming CV's and such. For someone just getting into the hobby like me, limited locomotive fleet etc, I guess I don't feel the sting of cost to upgrade as in my case its just part of experience while building my layout.
I will say, this though. I started off shaking my head and thinking, "I don't need sound." when I first purchased my Power Cab. Well, guess what? After hearing my favorite GP7 "fire up" its engine for the first time yesterday evening, blow its horn, clang its bell and accelerate down a short section of track I can assure you of one thing.
I was most definitely grinning from ear to ear.

Thanks, Tetters! Good feedback, especially re having sound. I'm still going to consider DCC, hoping that I can still get into this gradually (converting one loco at a time). It seems that it's possible to run your layout as part DCC and part DC. My current layout is very small (only 3x5), so its wiring is already quite simple!
Cheers, Rob