How would this be switched?

[Steamtrains]

I had thought of the moves with the cab "in my face"....Although Gary didn't specify if he was (will be) using cabs....
Why the "cab in your face" advice..??

[Brakie]

Gus,The same moves could and would be made without the caboose..
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Well..Ahem..

Guy,About that "never get your cabin in front of your face-in other words Think ahead!"

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough?

That's a polite way of saying don't get your fanny in front of your face by making the wrong moves-think ahead..In other words plan your moves by thinking ahead.

[Gary S]

Another question:

I have heard that set-outs should be kept near the front of the train, and pick-ups should be placed at the rear. For a short train, I guess this doesn't matter much, but anyone care to comment on that "rule"? When would a crew take the time and make the moves to put the pick-ups at the back of the train?

[ngauger]

Wow! I missed this thread 'till now

The PRR (The Standard Railroad of the World) had a lot of what would seem "Goofy rules"

One of which was they loved to see "White" clean looking smoke coming out of steam engines.

Another was that you Always work safe, but SAVE MONEY!!!!!!! With that in mind.. you are ALWAYS instructed to make runs, drops, and pick-ups using the following ideas:

Never move any car that you don't have to
Never move the engine any farther than you have to
Schedule time to limit Overtime

Now, looking back at the original diagram, we find that brakie's solution fits...
Moving the engine once into the sidings... and "if on a grade" letting the car(s) coast back to the train saves fuel.
as far as i know, if you have a good yard worker, they would set the train up before you left the yard. anyhting picked up along the way would be put at the front (behind the engine) as you go.

by default, the full cars would be at the rear ready to be dropped. another reason for this is that if you had a rear facing siding all the engineer had to do is uncouple after the car, pull forward and switch it off (backing) onto the siding.

for forward switches, (likre the diagram above) he has to make the "car to be dropped" the front car.... Oh yeah - another "Rule"

NEVER get the engine between the cars on the train....... In other words....

Caboose - car - car - <engine - car - car - car Engine heading toward car

It takes a lot of moves and fuel to "un-do" that goof!!

you always want the engine at either end of the train. This is where the slang never get the cabin in front of your face comes from:

car - caboose .................... <engine - car - car (Engine heading toward caboose)

on the above line, the engineer can "SEE" the caboose (cabin) DON'T go there!! LOL switch and RUN around the train!!!

In other words, like has been said: Think ahead!!!

[Gary S]

As i think about it, it seems that cars to be set out at facing point spurs (requiring a run-around) would best be near the rear of the train, but set-outs for trailing point spurs would be near the front of the train. Make sense?

[Brakie]

As i think about it, it seems that cars to be set out at facing point spurs (requiring a run-around) would best be near the rear of the train, but set-outs for trailing point spurs would be near the front of the train. Make sense?

That would be nice but,some times it was impossible to have everything nice and tidy due to the work involved..

Not to worry.

If the sit out ended up in the middle of the train we would take all the cars between the cabin and the setouts and do the require work.

Why?

Its easier and requires no extra work which save time and usually makes the Dispatcher or even a tower operator smile since we won't be tying up their main line doing terminal work.

If required we would rearrange our train into working order at a outlaying yard since we would have the room.

[Gary S]

Thanks Brakie, and thanks everyone for the info about switching. On one hand, operations seem pretty simple, "that car goes there, and pick that one up". But when you think about it deeper, it can get complicated about the best way to do something. So, as I was laying track the other night, I was thinking about operations and how a crew would switch that area. For one thing, I need to look ahead to determine where my uncoupling electromagnets need to be, and since this is an industrial switching layout, obviously I am interested in operations. Anyway, as I was considering the pick-ups and set-outs, it dawned on me that I didn't really have a clue about how a real railroad would do it.

So.......

Is there any interest in these basic switching movements from Big Blue? I'm sure I'll have more diagrams and questions as I am building the layout. I would love to get some input from you guys who actually worked the rails, or from anyone else for that matter.

[Gary S]

Oh... forgot this... I would guess that when making a trailing point setout, the fewer cars between the engine and setout, the better? As examples, if the setout was right behind the engine, then we would cut off the rest of the train before the turnout, pull forward and then shove the setout into the turnout. The engineer could easily see what was being done because he is right there at the spur.

On the other hand, If that setout was at the end of the train, then we would do the same thing as above, but the engine would be several (or many) cars away from the setout/spur so it would not be as easy to see what was going on, plus all the slack in the couplers, plus having to move all the cars forward, then in reverse, then forward again, then revers again.

sound right?

[Brakie]

... I would guess that when making a trailing point setout, the fewer cars between the engine and setout, the better? As examples, if the setout was right behind the engine, then we would cut off the rest of the train before the turnout, pull forward and then shove the setout into the turnout. The engineer could easily see what was being done because he is right there at the spur.
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While we would try to keep our train in working order and do exactly what you described but,that wasn't always possible.

Some times the setout may be several cars deep but,no worries we would take all cars between the engine and setout...If the industrial track was to light to handle a heavy locomotive,we would need to use idler cars between the engine and setout or pickup..

Now at the next outlaying yard we would put our train back in working order since we would have the needed room to do the work-unless it was a short train then we simply didn't bother.

Railroading is fairly straight forward and routine as far as the work but,working a local or a urban industrial switch job isn't always as simple as it appears..You may have to drop a setout in front of the car being loaded or unloaded-this makes extra work the next day when you pull that empty car.Then a customer with several spots calls for extra work if you only pulling 1 or 2 loads or empties.You will need to respot the cars that is being loaded or unloaded.

[MasonJar]

Oh... forgot this... I would guess that when making a trailing point setout, the fewer cars between the engine and setout, the better? As examples, if the setout was right behind the engine, then we would cut off the rest of the train before the turnout, pull forward and then shove the setout into the turnout. The engineer could easily see what was being done because he is right there at the spur.

On the other hand, If that setout was at the end of the train, then we would do the same thing as above, but the engine would be several (or many) cars away from the setout/spur so it would not be as easy to see what was going on, plus all the slack in the couplers, plus having to move all the cars forward, then in reverse, then forward again, then revers again.

sound right?

Depending on the era, I think you might not even need a run-around. You can draw on such questionable-safety moves as poling, or the flying switch.

Andrew

[Puddlejumper]

Depending on the era, I think you might not even need a run-around. You can draw on such questionable-safety moves as poling, or the flying switch.

Andrew

And static drops, which are still legit.

[Gary S]

Static drops?

For facing point spurs, couldn't a car be set out by using a long chain and the loco pulling the car into the spur?

[MasonJar]

Static drops?

For facing point spurs, couldn't a car be set out by using a long chain and the loco pulling the car into the spur?

That's what the flying switch and poling accomplish.

The flying switch has the loco start the car rolling, then it is uncoupled. The loco accelerates past the turnout, and the points are thrown for the siding before the car gets there, allowing it to roll in. It is stopped by a crew member who is riding who applies the brakes.

Poling uses the "poling pocket" seen on older cars. A largish (wood) pole is braced between the loco and a car on an adjacent track in order to move said car. This would be used in your scenario in the event that the flying switch did not deliver the car far enough into the siding. Of course it only works when the adjacent track is near enough for the reach of the pole.

Not sure what "static drop" is...?

Andrew

[Puddlejumper]

I might have the terminology screwed up. We called them static drops on the ex-CR in D.C. It's when you uncouple and bleed off the car on a grade with the handbrake applied, then run the loco past the switch, then release the brake on the car and ride it in, stopping the car past the switch. Then you can use the loco to spot said car.

[Russ Bellinis]

Gary, if I remember correctly you are modeling a modern industrial switching district. I'm not sure when two way radios became the standard operating procedure for train crews working a local, but I'm going to guess the 1960's. From what I've seen here in So Cal, every drop or pick up made even if it is next to the engine, a switchman is on the ground using hand signals to direct the engineer. I'm not sure what the "blind spot" is directly in front of the engine, but I would guess that is is at least 25-50 feet at coupler height. If the drop or pick up is far enough away from the engine for the engineer to have difficulty picking up hand signals, I think they communicate by radio, and sometimes have a second crew member relaying signals from the man on the ground at the drop/pickup point to the engineer.