This one's for Gary S.

[cn nutbar]

Hello Everyone---not all of the Canadian National Railways steam engines were black---here's streamlined U-4-A Northern (4-8-4) all dressed up for passenger service

[BR60103]

The Whyte system worked pretty well for years while locos were pretty straightforward and everybody was familiar with them. It wasn't intended to do anything fancy.
Then someone (possibly connected with Trains magazine) decided that the system had to be able to distinguish articulated locomotives where one engine swung from those where neither engine swung and those where both engines swung. Someone was getting his shorts in a knot trying to describe a Pennsy T1 against a four-truck Shay. So they added + signs and (brackets) to the system. And quietly dropped it all after a few years.
The common visible feedwater heaters are the Elesco (from L. S. Co which was???) -- a big tube in front of the stack --and the Coffin -- stuck out in front and bent around above the smokebox door. Of course, all of these had incomprehensible piping hooked into them. And then there were interior ones which we don't need to know about (except where the piping is visible),

[Steamtrains]

That is one SHARP looking loco...

[doctorwayne]

The common visible feedwater heaters are the Elesco (from L. S. Co which was???) -- a big tube in front of the stack --and the Coffin -- stuck out in front and bent around above the smokebox door. Of course, all of these had incomprehensible piping hooked into them. And then there were interior ones which we don't need to know about (except where the piping is visible),

Locomotive Superheater Co., I think.

Elesco heater bundles were often ahead of the stack or on brackets at the front of the smokebox, but could also be behind the stack or on the pilot deck. Coffin feedwater heaters were usually hidden inside the smokebox, although a few roads did have exposed versions. Also common were various versions of the Worthington BL, a massive combined pump and heater usually hung on the fireman's side of the loco, above the drivers. These were eventually superseded by the Worthington SA.

There are some examples of these shown HERE.

Wayne

[ocalicreek]

Dad-GUM! That 4-8-4 is a thing of beauty! :o hock: Gotta love a streamlined Northern!

Galen

[cn nutbar]

Happy Canada Day to all my fellow Ca-knuckleheads

Thanks to Everyone for all your responses.The Elesco Feedwater System was a common feature on many Canadian National steam locomotives but there were various ways this apparatus was applied.Here's a few shots showing the different applications.

CNR Northern (4-8-4) #6200 appears to have it cut right into the top of the smokebox



On Mikado (2-8-2) #3377,it appears to be sitting on a box like footing



2-10-2 #4193 has brackets on the front of the locomotive

[P5se Camelback]

As I recall, the Central Railroad of New Jersey was a big fan of that apparatus!

[cn nutbar]

Hello Everyone---some more shots of the Elesco feedwater system---the 3529 was modified with the application of this apparatus by my good friend Doctor Wayne

[Gary S]

Were the heaters typically used mainly in the north, or would you find them all over the continent?

[doctorwayne]

They were used all over the place, Gary, as they improved the performance of the loco dramatically. Quoting from The Superheater Company's ad copy:

"The economy of the locomotive feedwater heater results from the fact - often proven practically - that if each pound of water is increased 11 degrees in temperature by waste heat, before it enters the boiler, it will be equivalent to a saving of one percent of the fuel required to convert it into steam. With a back pressure of 5 lb., the temperature of the feed water can be raised about 160 degrees F., thus representing a saving of nearly 15% in fuel consumed. Only about 12% to 16% of the exhaust from the cylinders is required, leaving a remainder amply sufficient to take care of the draft requirements without nozzle adjustment.
Further economy is obtained by reclaiming the condensate. Through this means, 15% of the water can be saved, which, in some cases, eliminates the necessity of stopping a train to take water. This is also equivalent to adding 1500 gal. to the water-carrying capacity of a 10,000 gal. tender."

Other companies offered similar performance and economies.

Wayne

[Gary S]

It certainly makes sense to get some use out of the wasted heat. But most steam locos I see in photos don't have the apparatus on the nose. Were there other places that these heaters were installed on a loco?

"Only about 12% to 16% of the exhaust from the cylinders is required, leaving a remainder amply sufficient to take care of the draft requirements without nozzle adjustment."

What exactly does that mean?

Further economy is obtained by reclaiming the condensate.

I assume that in the original engines, the steam was exhausted out of the cylinders into the atmosphere. The condensate reclamation took the exhausted steam and condensed it back to liquid and put it back in the boiler?

A closed system for the water to steam to water would have certainly been possible... with hardly any loss of water, negating the need to stop for water at all. But I suppose the energy requirements to move that water around made it less efficient than to just exhaust it into the atmosphere?

[faraway]

Gary,
a closed system would fail. You need the steam blowing through the stack to get the fire going. An other point is cooling the steam down to become water again. That requires a huge condensate tender that works best in cold environment. But they are need in dry and hot climate. That makes the condensate tender even bigger and more complicated. It was a nice try and some engines have been build (even in Germany) but it never became main stream. Just a bigger water tank in the tender or a second tender with additional water was a more simple solution.

[doctorwayne]

It certainly makes sense to get some use out of the wasted heat. But most steam locos I see in photos don't have the apparatus on the nose. Were there other places that these heaters were installed on a loco?

The Elesco heater bundle (where the actual heating took place) usually was located atop the boiler, as shown in the photos, although I've seen them behind the stack, too. Another common location was on the pilot deck: the loco shown below has its heater atop the smokebox but it could have been placed below the smokebox where the air tank is located -


There are other examples shown in the link posted HERE

"Only about 12% to 16% of the exhaust from the cylinders is required, leaving a remainder amply sufficient to take care of the draft requirements without nozzle adjustment."

What exactly does that mean?

Normally, the spent steam from the cylinders was exhausted out the stack (along with the smoke). In fact, the exhausted steam is still expanding, so it's propelled up the stack rather forcefully. This tends to draw the smoke and hot gases through the flues within the boiler, which in turn, draws combustion air into the firebox. When a steam loco is at rest, with no cylinder exhaust available, a blower is available to aid in draught creation, but it, of course, requires steam to operate. So essentially, the feed water heater requires only a small amount of the total exhaust steam, leaving an ample supply to maintain a good draught.

Further economy is obtained by reclaiming the condensate.

I assume that in the original engines, the steam was exhausted out of the cylinders into the atmosphere. The condensate reclamation took the exhausted steam and condensed it back to liquid and put it back in the boiler?

A closed system for the water to steam to water would have certainly been possible... with hardly any loss of water, negating the need to stop for water at all. But I suppose the energy requirements to move that water around made it less efficient than to just exhaust it into the atmosphere?

While it's generally not considered feasible to attempt to reclaim the spent steam as condensate, the fact that it's already captive in the fwh system requires very little additional effort. In South Africa and, I believe, Australia, some railroads running through desert areas with little or poor-quality water available did use condensing systems to reclaim much of the water from the exhaust steam.

Wayne

[Gary S]

Reinhard, DocWayne, thanks for the great info! I learned something. I never gave any thought to the steam going through the smoke stack. But it makes complete sense now.

And as long as water is fairly easily available, no need for all the complications of a system to totally reclaim all the lost water.

Again, thanks for the replies, and I know alot more now than before.

[jglfan]

I love Elesco heaters! They look particularly nice over a Pyle headlight, like that on the Erie inspired JGL 2-8-2 on the right in this photo.