Possible Scale Switch

[RRManiac]

I've actually made the decision and am 100% sure that I am switching to N scale.

A small HO shelf layout will be kept down at my Dad's. I have a track plan developed for a layout that I recently decided upon. Before, with HO, I had wanted to be able to model late steam operations on a coal-hauling shortline that managed to muscle through the Depression, but was starting to die in the early '40s.

It's loosely based on most coal hauling in states along and near the Eastern Seaboard, as well as the East Broad Top.

Pretty soon, I'm going to start working on a coal tipple, in addition to the roundhouse(which needs to be started still), and the coal hoppers replacing the coal tipple at the mine at the farthest end of the line. The only other industry aside from coal along the line is a bark shipping point, and a freight house in the town that ships the bark for shipping misc. items.

Can't wait to get started. I'll post a progress thread soon.

[RobertInOntario]

Wow, I'm in the same boat! I'll read the replies here later ...

I have about 30 locos in HO (or British 00 which is similar to HO). I'm very hard-pressed for space so I have small HO/00 layouts. My main concern about switching is that I've now spent so much money on HO locos, stock, and buildings that it would be a costly conversion. But it would help me to scale down what I have, no pun intended.

If I were starting from scratch, I'd choose N but I had inherited a large HO/00 collection from my dad, which partly got me started in the HO/00 direction.

Rob

[RRManiac]

The way that I have been working to afford the switch is by:

>Scrounging as many materials that are useful between both HO and N scales(ground foam, fine turf, that sort of thing)
Why: Lower the cost of switching.
>Selling my HO track, motive power, and rolling stock
Why: People need stuff like that for their layouts, and they will usually scoop up a deal if they can.
>Watching EvilBay for deals on N scale steam power.
Why: I've been looking to find a prairie(just missed one last Tuesday), a consolidation, a pair of 0-6-0s, and 4 moguls, bringing the total number of rostered locos to a whopping 8 locos. That much steam equipment is going to get costly. I'm also considering throwing in some gas-electric equipment like speeders, speeder trailers, and equipment like that.
>Studying the prototype(s) that I'm following to see how they did things.
Why: Railroads do everything they can to cut unnecessary costs, without endangering the safety of their workers. If drilling out a mile long tunnel through the Tuscarora mountains, was really necessary, they would want to have a REAL good reason for doing so(the EBT tried to link up with the NYC via the South Penn Extension and also to connect with the Tuscarora Valley RR. In order to link up with one of the two(I forget which), they needed to bore a 1 mile long tunnel through the Tuscarora mountains. They leveled a yard site there as well, which was later used as a staging area/garage for the building of the Pennsylvania Turnpike.

[eje]

The N-scale models and parts available these days are really very good. My eyesight is okay with glasses, but I have found one of those magnifying visors to be indispensable. Also, many times one needs to fabricate special tools, like wrecking a paper clip to make a tweezer for installing very small screws and other parts. It's all doable.

The BLMA wheel sets are the biggest improvement to rolling stock performance I've come across, and their application vastly improves operational smoothness. Of course, a 1/64" hiccup in the track will be magnified approximately 85% in comparison to HO scale! So the track base must be as smooth as you can make it. My experience is the Atlas GP range of locomotives are truly superior performers in N, and can rival almost anything available in HO operationally. The Atlas code 55 track products are also quite good, and readily available at nominal cost. There are products from other manufacturers that can also provide very satisfying results. As in any scale, it's good to decide on couplers, and then use them always.

I do think there is a bit more fuss involved when modeling in 160:1, but it is entirely practicable to make N-scale models perform very very well, and in very little space. Good luck! Ric

[MountainMan]

I'll offer a bit of reasoning that I came across while browsing my collection of NG&SL Gazettes:

If you want to model an engine, use O scale.
If you want to model a train, use HO scale.
But if you want to model an entire railway, N scale is the way to go.

[RRManiac]

Well, sounds good. I have actually made the switch already, and I'm very happy with it. However, I do still have a bunch of HO scale equipment to get rid of. If anyone would be interested in buying it, I'll be putting up a list of things for sale soon. I can't say how soon, but keep an eye out.

[RobertInOntario]

Interesting thread! I'm in a similar boat although it may be too late to change. I inherited a lot of HO (and British 00 -- similar to HO) from my Dad. Over the years, I've bought a lot of HO / OO stuff. And, due to lack of space, I now have 3 small HO layouts (rather than one large one) -- the small layouts can easily be stored away.

The only way I could change would be to sell (or trade in) some of my newer HO / 00 locos and keep most of the older ones (ones that I would want to keep for sentimental reasons). It would be great to start off in N scale with DCC locos with sound, etc., and have a reasonably-size 3x6 or so N-scale layout.

But doing this -- selling off many of my HO locos and scrapping 1-2 layouts -- would be costly (i.e. I'd lose money). Stirring up the pot even further, I know that some MRR enthusiasts dabble in 2 or even 3 scales! So maybe I could reduce my HO collection & grow an N collection?!

[rrinker]

This has me thinking again. And that's probably not a good thing. The last time I did N scale, I finally got fed up with the poor runnign quality and mostly junky locos available. Right before the Atlas/Kato diesels appeared on the scene. I went back to HO and have been there ever since. I could definitely do a ton more in N scale. Most of the locos and cars I need are available no in N scale, although like much of my HO stuff I would ahve to comb eBay as many things are out of production. Some of my HO structures are limited run items for various historical societies but the company that made them has the same kit available in N scale as a stocked item, so rather than living with the one I have with no more to be made, I cna buy up as many N scale ones as I would need.
Oh it is so tempting, but I haven't even gotten the current layout operational, let along sceniced. And there is the vision issue, my eyes are pretty bad and have been since I was in second grade. Adding scale size grabs to HO rollign stock is tricky, even with a big magnifier light at my workbench. I'm not sure I coudl do it in N scale. A friend of mine has a nice N scale layout, handlaid track to 2mm finescale standards, and he scratchbuilds locos. I'm pretty good at soldering but cramming those tiny decoders in and soldering wires that are only a millimeter or so long seems rather daunting to me. I would be pretty much all diesel though and the newer ones all have drop-in decoders. Sound I don;t care about, I have a few sound locos in HO but definitely not needed.
Then there's starting over - I have a pretty significant collection of HO equipment. Perhaps I shall put this line of thinkign off until I have to move again, and then decide to rebuild my current layout or start all over.

--Randy

[Green_Elite_Cab]

I don't know what i would do with myself if i didn't model in HO. Most of the equipment I could ever want has been made in HO. N scale would be fantastic in terms of me wanting to model the Northeast Corridor, but it doesn't do me much good, as there are few electrics in N, and even fewer odd-ball commuter cars. Its a shame to, N scale is probably the only one that you could operate a real commuter style layout in a rational amount of space. If only the N-scale catenary would be easy!

Not that you can't run a couple RDCs or MUs in a small space, but you have to consider the time between stops, and remember that only the far most branches would have "short" commuter trains. In N scale, you can sorta get away with longer trains and more train stops in the same space of an average HO layout.

Heck, even larger passenger trains are pain in HO. God forbid you want to model certain trains like the Silver Star, or the Auto Train on Amtrak, or perhaps the Broadway limited or Empire builder or whatever. I don't think any one of these trains are shorter than 12 cars (and if you order these Walthers Subscriptions you're DEFINITELY getting at least that many cars). These trains are getting to be 13-15 feet long! many need more than one locomotive to pull them.

How many HO layouts out there do you know where the bench work is at least 25-30 feet in one direction? On the average bedroom-sized HO layout, there is barely any room for such a train to pull the slack out of the couplers before it either has to stop or has reached the point it started at again! And what kind of train station can even handle a train like that? At my club, some of these passenger trains (including my Silver Meteor which is a 13 car train) can BARELY fit. Even if you just want to model the train "passing through", you're stuck with monumental staging tracks. Its even worse if you're one of those "point-to-point" people with staging yards on the far end from each other.

This is why i get the feeling that no matter how good i get at modeling Electrics and catenary, that i'll never really build a layout even CLOSE to what i would like in HO even in the future. I don't think most homes would even have the space i'd need. I could selectively compress some things, but you can only do that so far.


Once again, i'm sad they don't make most of my kind of trains in N-scale in any real detail, otherwise I might consider it.

[Justinmiller171]

These trains are getting to be 13-15 feet long! many need more than one locomotive to pull them.

That's where selective compression comes into play, you could just make the train long enough so that it looks full-size, we already scale down freight trains and cities so I don't see why we can't scale down passenger trains.

There was an interesting article in MRR awhile back about "pike-sized passenger trains", it gave examples of real passenger trains that only had about 3 or 4 cars on them, It even showed a Penn Central passenger train with 1 car!

[Green_Elite_Cab]

That's where selective compression comes into play, you could just make the train long enough so that it looks full-size, we already scale down freight trains and cities so I don't see why we can't scale down passenger trains.

There was an interesting article in MRR awhile back about "pike-sized passenger trains", it gave examples of real passenger trains that only had about 3 or 4 cars on them, It even showed a Penn Central passenger train with 1 car!

Selective compression is not the answer. You can only shave so many cars off of a name train like the 20th Century Limited, or the Acela Express, or the Super Chief, or the Sunset Limited, before it stops looking like either of those trains.

That pike sized passenger train article is interesting, but don't be misled. Those trains were the exception, not the rule.

besides, its not like its uncommon for there to be short passenger trains trains on off peak hours, but it defeats the purpose of modelling an actual name train if you're going to remove the cars that make up the train.

[RobertInOntario]

These trains are getting to be 13-15 feet long! many need more than one locomotive to pull them.

That's where selective compression comes into play, you could just make the train long enough so that it looks full-size, we already scale down freight trains and cities so I don't see why we can't scale down passenger trains.

There was an interesting article in MRR awhile back about "pike-sized passenger trains", it gave examples of real passenger trains that only had about 3 or 4 cars on them, It even showed a Penn Central passenger train with 1 car!

Yikes, I have to really "compress" my passenger trains on my small British 00 layout to 3 or 4 (at the most) cars -- otherwise, the train "overwhelms" the layout. I should probably focus more on early-20th century passenger trains where the passenger cars only had 4 or 6 wheels, etc. These 3-4 passenger car trains are scaled-down versions -- the real-life/protypical ones would have had 8-10 coaches.

[Green_Elite_Cab]

Yikes, I have to really "compress" my passenger trains on my small British 00 layout to 3 or 4 (at the most) cars -- otherwise, the train "overwhelms" the layout. I should probably focus more on early-20th century passenger trains where the passenger cars only had 4 or 6 wheels, etc. These 3-4 passenger car trains are scaled-down versions -- the real-life/protypical ones would have had 8-10 coaches.

I know the feeling. In one of my videos i posted here, i have a few clips of my E60CH pulling 8 coaches. It looked fine going through the scene, but the train itself took up a little less than half of the mainline run on the outer oval of my 4x8!

This is why now if i run passengers, its usually in the form of an Electric Multiple Unit, since a 2 to four car train wouldn't be unusual. three car push pulls are also common on some parts of the eastern lines i model during off peak hours.

Are there any british equivalents of RDCs or doodle bugs? I figure they have MUs, but i'm not sure you're looking to electrify

[BR60103]

Are there any british equivalents of RDCs or doodle bugs? I figure they have MUs, but i'm not sure you're looking to electrify

The Brits have both DMUs and EMUs (and even DEMUs, I think). For Rob, I think they never got on the SDJR -- it was abandoned a bit too early.
There were plenty of short branchline trains, classics with a small loco and one or two coaches.

[RobertInOntario]

I know the feeling. In one of my videos i posted here, i have a few clips of my E60CH pulling 8 coaches. It looked fine going through the scene, but the train itself took up a little less than half of the mainline run on the outer oval of my 4x8!
This is why now if i run passengers, its usually in the form of an Electric Multiple Unit, since a 2 to four car train wouldn't be unusual. three car push pulls are also common on some parts of the eastern lines i model during off peak hours.
Are there any british equivalents of RDCs or doodle bugs? I figure they have MUs, but i'm not sure you're looking to electrify

Yes, I suppose even a 4x8' layout doesn't do justice to scale-length trains. This is one more reason why N can be a good choice (easier to run full-scale trains). I probably won't be switching to N anytime soon though as I've got too much money and stock invested in my HO / 00 collection. I'll have to make do. Also, in recent years, I now need reading glasses so working with N could be a challenge. I even have to put reading glasses on when soldering and working on HO scale stuff! I'm not that old (51) but still need to be realistic.