Gary S' 2010 Summer Challenge - Bridge

[Gary S]

Hey everyone, thanks for the inspiring comments! I'm at work tonight putting the final touches on my work presentation for tomorrow, making copioes of handouts, etc. Wish me luck.

As for the train crossing the bridge, I want to get the ballast down and the water glossed first. Most likely will paint the blue foam green too - so that the terrain in back ofthe train at least looks the right color. Should be done with all that this weekend, then it is

TrAiN TimE!

[Gary S]

Finally got back to the bridge today. Ballast time. Haven't put the gloss coat on the water yet, figured it best to get the ballast work and other stuff done, leaving the varnish for last. Don't want stuff dripping on it.

Spreading ballast in the middle of the bridge

   

Some dirt around the abutement. Will add ballast over the top of this.

   

And some glue. This was a bit different then I had done before because the bridge sides trap the excess glue as compared to normal ballasting where the excess alcohol and glue runs off.

   

[Gary S]

Another quick note:

Even though I am using and will continue using Woodland Scenics ballast because I bought and used a bunch of it for the layout sections from the garage, it does have a tendency to float up in the glue and spread onto the ties. Hmm... maybe I should try some of the Arizona rock stuff?

[doctorwayne]

Gary, if you use enough "wet" water before applying the glue, your ballast won't float.

Wayne

[Gary S]

DocWayne, I'm using 70% alcohol for the wetting agent. So I need to put more of that on first? I am using a 2 water to 1 glue mixture with a couple drops of dishwashing soap, and the glue does kind of sit there for a bit before soaking in. Should the glue immediately soak into the ballast?

[Steamtrains]

Gary...What's the proportion of glue to the water/alcohol mixture..?? I generally use 2 parts dilute to 1 part glue. The glue should soak in immediately.

It's almost there.....

[Gary S]

Gus, I use a two part process. First I do the "wet" water which is 70% alcohol thinned a bit with water, maybe 3 parts alcohol to 1 part water. That goes on first. Then comes the glue, which is 2 parts water to 1 part glue with a touch of dish soap in it.

[Steamtrains]

That sounds about right. To minimize the floating "rocks", make sure you've packed the ballast nice & tight and use the wetting agent liberally...

[Gary S]

Gus, I'll do that when I ballast more track. For now, did quite a bit today, painted the sides of the rails, painted the blue layout foam green (will do the ground foam or static grass much further in the future), and put in the riprap on the edges of the concrete as per the prototype.

   

   

[mountaingoatgreg]

Gary,

Your progress is very impressive and I look forward to a completed scene in a day or two
This forum really has got me motivated to get somethings done and to try and keep up with some of you guys is a great challenge. To date I am WAY behind but having a good time!!

As for the Woodland scenics this is the main reason I have switched to Arizona Rock being as it is real rocks. WS is actually walnut shells which of course float. I have also had a hard time in the past getting the material soacked all the way through. I do also understand the issue of having something and not being able to get rid of it....I am going to have a bunch of gravel parking lots, I guess

[nachoman]

As for the Woodland scenics this is the main reason I have switched to Arizona Rock being as it is real rocks. WS is actually walnut shells which of course float. I have also had a hard time in the past getting the material soacked all the way through. I do also understand the issue of having something and not being able to get rid of it....I am going to have a bunch of gravel parking lots, I guess

I also like AZ rock and mineral products. BTW, that company is for sale (owner wants to retire). Sounds like a good side business for me, but the $100k asking price is a bit steep my my wallet!

[doctorwayne]

DocWayne, I'm using 70% alcohol for the wetting agent. So I need to put more of that on first? I am using a 2 water to 1 glue mixture with a couple drops of dishwashing soap, and the glue does kind of sit there for a bit before soaking in. Should the glue immediately soak into the ballast?

Hmmm. I'm not sure, Gary. I don't use alcohol as a wetting agent (can't stand the smell), but use only a few drops of liquid dish detergent in a large sprayer. The reason the ballast floats is because the surface tension of the water is too great relative to the weight of the ballast - you need either more wetting agent or heavier ballast. I wet the area until water runs from the bottom edges of the ballast (not possible on your curbed bridge), then apply a 50/50 mixture of white glue and water, adding it until it also appears through the lower extremities of the ballast profile. This can take up to several days to harden (I had some areas that took a couple of weeks, but the material was quite deep.) When dry, the ballast will be solid - really solid, as I discovered when trying to clear a spot for one of my crossing shanties. I had to cut around the perimeter of the area with a utility knife, then use a scraper to gouge it out. I'm glad only one shanty needs to be located on the edge of a deep ballast profile.

Wayne

[MasonJar]

DocWayne, I'm using 70% alcohol for the wetting agent. So I need to put more of that on first? I am using a 2 water to 1 glue mixture with a couple drops of dishwashing soap, and the glue does kind of sit there for a bit before soaking in. Should the glue immediately soak into the ballast?

To add to Wayne's comment in the post above, I have used 50% alcohol (comes that way straight out of the bottle from the dollar store) to soak the ballast to the point where you can see that it is all wet, but that it is not running all over the place. I then use a 50-50 mix of water with white glue or matte medium. No dish deterg, but possibly some additional alcohol in place of the water. Too much though, and I find the glue does not mix smoothly.

I put both these liquids on with an eye dropper. I never got the "spray method" of applying wet water so often employed by MR and others to work satisfactorily. I add the glue mix again until it looks like everything is covered, and it begins to seep out the bottom of the profile. In your case, I guess you'll add it until the bridge "fills up", but that the top level of ballast is still visible.

Hope that helps!

Andrew

[Gary S]

As I was laying in bed last night, it dawned on me what the issue was. Back when the layout was in the garage and I was ballasting the track, I didn't have issues with the ballast floating up, at least not like the problem yesterday. But because of the confinement of the bridge, the alcohol wet water and the glue mixture had no place to run out. All it could do was build up above the ballast until the alcohol and water evaporated out of the glue.

One weird thing I noticed yesterday was that as I put the glue on the track, there was an "upward flow" of alcohol and ballast at the outside confinements of the bridge. What I am thinking - again because of the confinement of the bridge - the heavier glue mixture was pushing down on the alcohol and the alcohol was flowing up at the edges of the bridge, lifting the ballast.

So at least I feel better now - I'm certain that the rest of the ballasting on the non-bridge track will go well.

[nachoman]

Gary, I think you are being too meticulous with your ballast concerns . No matter what I have used for ballast, or what technique I have used, there is always some cleanup work required to pick stray ballast off from the sides of the rails or tops of ties. Sometimes a rub over with a finger is enough to break it loose, other times you may need to use something like a bamboo skewer or chopstick to knock it loose. The coarser and heavier the ballast is, the less the problem is. But, once you get below a certain particle size no matter what material your ballast is made from, it doesn't take much fluid movement to entrain the ballast particles in the flow. The flow from your glue bottle or eyedropper is sufficient to entrain smaller ballast particles and carry them over the ties. If you are having to do significant cleanup afterwards, perhaps you technique could use refining. But some cleanup from the tops of ties is almost unavoidable.