Suggestions for scratchbuilding this?

[steinjr]

Hi guys --

After looking at Kurts thread on his new layout, I just happened upon this picture, which made me think "this building is just crying to get onto my layout":



The original Pillsbury mill building is a seven stories tall (counting the little part on the roof) stone building, and about 4 boxcars long - call it about 24" in H0 scale.

Lengthwise it is not too bad for available space on my layout - I can do 18" long and 6" deep, at the far left rear of this area - the area tentatively maked "GERN Mpls plant" (another inspiration by modelers on this forum :-) )



But height wise 7 stories will be too tall for my shelf - here is a picture that shows the location on my layout with an old four story high (8.5") and 15" long printed paper building:



You can see the bottom of the shelf above just over the building - by repositioning a light strip I could free up enough vertical space to allow a 10" tall building with 1.5" of space above it, without getting a light and heat source too close to the building.

Any suggestions on

1) how to cut down the prototype building to a 10" tall and 18" long representation - what elements would you keep and what would you drop to retain as much as possible of the look and feel of the building while still making it fit the space available ?

I'm thinking that if I number the floors 1-7 from bottom to top, and the columns 1 - 11, left to right, what I could perhaps dropcolumns 3 and 9, ie the middle column of each wing group of three, and retain floors 1 (loading dock), 3 (with blank space in center), 5 (rounded window in center), 6 (added floor, rounded window on sides) and a cut down floor 7 (roof).

2) How would you build up this building in layers to get the indentations etc ?

Looking at Kurt's work, I see that he is using two layers of 1 mm (.040") styrene for the recessed parts, and adding a layer of 2mm (0.080") styrene on the outside of the main 1 mm building part for the part of his building that comes further out. Same principle would work for the lower part of this building, I think.

How about achieving the look of the top stories here? Do you figure just some kind of strip on the wall under the last full length story, and a couple of strips to build the cornice at top of the building?

AFAIK, I can only get small plates of styrene (6" x 12") over here - the kind you get in bags from WS or Evergreen - not the big 4x8 foot sheets - how would you guys do the joints - vertically or horizontally?

3) What would you do to make the building look like it is made out of stone ?

Building will be at rear of layout - about 20" away from viewers at the closest - about the distance I took the photo above from. I know I can print out a pattern of stones (like in that old paper building in the picture above), and just glue that to some underlying material, and it won't look too horrible (if I use a better printer).

But if I went for something like Kurt's approach (layering styrene to get the indentations etc) - what can I do to get a stone building look surface? Is it just dumb of me to even consider doing this with styrene layers?

Lots of questions - hope people don't mind.

Suggestions gratefully accepted

Smile,
Stein

[faraway]

Stein, I did see Kurt's building and like it very much but I do not see how it would help you. The problem are the bricks. If you get styrene sheets of brick and cut them as Kurt did you do not end up with a useful brick structure. I tried that some time ago and was very frustrated. Horizontal and vertical cuts that split stones in parts look bad. There are also lots of locations (on top of windows etc.) where the bricks must have a specific direction. All that is not possible with sheets of brick styrene.

[MasonJar]

I think the layered styrene is the way to go - but beware the cutting ordeal of the thick stuff. You may be able to find large sheets courtesy of public transit (I got my 2x8 sheets from old bus-side advertising) but it is at least 60-thou.

As far as the compression goes, I agree with your horizontal plan, but would eliminate stories 2 & 3, keeping the arched window and the rectangular one below (4 & 5) since it is a very recognizable combination.

Hope that helps.

Andrew

[doctorwayne]

Since you'll be using the building as part of the background, I'd go with .060" sheet styrene, then cover it with printed stone. You'll probably need to print your own arches for those over the windows.
However, instead of cutting openings in the sheet, cut it into strips representing both the vertical and horizontal wall sections- score-and-snap works great with this thickness. Obviously, either the vertical or horizontal strips will need to be cut into sections to allow for continuous strips in the other direction. Cut additional full length strips to rejoin the original strips - you can place some of the vertical ones on the exterior of the walls, representing the pilasters - and, of course, leave openings wherever you need a window. In areas where all of the bracing must be placed on the back (unseen) face of the wall, do either the vertical or horizontal ones as continuous strips, add spacers running in the opposite plane, then cap that with more full-length strips.
If you plan on using commercial window castings - both Tichy and Grandt Line offer windows for masonry buildings - you can size your window openings very accurately using this method.
To attach the "stone" paper to the walls, use contact cement - "prep" the plastic by first applying a coat of lacquer thinner using a brush of suitable width - this prevents the solvent in the contact cement from being drawn into the styrene, which weakens the bond. Lacquer thinner is also the perfect cement for styrene - cheap and permanent. Use in a well-ventilated area and/or wear a two-stage respirator.
I tried searching for "sheet styrene" or "sheet polystyrene in Norway", but had no luck - the closest I found in a quick search was India. However, I can't believe that it's not available - check sign makers or sign makers supplies, or contact one to find out where they get their raw material - I wouldn't be surprised if you could purchase a 4'x8' sheet from them directly. And the sheets are easy to transport, even if you have to take the bus - it rolls-up easily, and a couple of wraps of tape will keep it so until you get it home. Use a utility knife to cut it - it will dull blades quickly, and these replacement blades are cheaper than those for your X-Acto.

I agree with Andrew's suggestion of floors to be eliminated, and you could also shorten the height of each of the remaining storeys by a couple of scale feet.

Wayne

[steinjr]

Hmm - you all make good points.

Wayne - thanks for the idea about cutting strips instead of cutting out windows, and for the idea of gluing paper to the styrene.

I've been googling for "skiltmaker" (sign maker) and "arkitekturmodeller" (architectural models), and learned that the local high school in my home town has a design class that also does shop displays and such things. Will try to contact them to ask where they get their materials from.

Also learned that Plastikard is a name to use when looking for styrene sheets in Europe - it is really a trade name from a British company, which offers quite a few patterned/embossed types of sheets.

Reinhard - you are right that the challenge would seem to be to get the stone pattern to match up with the windows and edges. Might work better if I use a pattern of irregular larger stones, rather than a pattern of identical size bricks - cut off stones might not be quite as noticable as cut off bricks - at least not from 20" away.

Andrew - you are right about it being smarter to drop floors 2 and 3, as to keep the signature combination of windows on floors 4 and 5. Wayne also made a good point about shrinking the floors a little in height.

Will make an attempt at a paper model later in the week - am too tired tonight, after 14 hours at work.

Thanks, guys!

Stein

[P5se Camelback]

My eyes are not quite as good as they once were (and the Optalmologist says my vision isn't impared enough yet to warrant a new glasses prescription) but it appears that there is a stone lintel above each window (at least there should be, architecturally) which might help with the "cutting stones above the window fenestrations" routine! A piece of styrene cut to size just might solve the problem!

[BR60103]

Floor 6 (and above) looks as i it might be an addition and you could delete it to backdate a bit.
But then, it adds a bit to the charm and distinctiveness.

[doctorwayne]

My eyes are not quite as good as they once were (and the Optalmologist says my vision isn't impared enough yet to warrant a new glasses prescription) but it appears that there is a stone lintel above each window (at least there should be, architecturally) which might help with the "cutting stones above the window fenestrations" routine! A piece of styrene cut to size just might solve the problem!

Some of them have a lintel, while others have an arched top - these include all of them on the second and fifth floors (the latter have an inset lintel, with an arched top on the individual bays) and the vertical rows at the corners of the trackside wall, plus, of course, the large arch on the 5th floor and those round windows on the 6th.

I agree with biL, though: for the lintels and sills, a thin strip of styrene cemented to the face of the wall will suffice. Note that the sills in the recessed bays appear to extend the full width of the bay, as do the lintels.

Wayne

[ocalicreek]

For arches above the windows I seem to recall an old technique for using paper to make such arches. This involved drawing the brick on the paper - real old-school time consuming stuff - in a pattern then cutting the mortar lines part way through and bending the arch over the window with the cuts on the upper side of the arch.

For a stone arch perhaps you could do the same only instead of cutting mortar lines on top of the arch, cut notches below so that there's little if any gap between stones. So instead of fanning out the bricks, you're compressing the stones together.

Another option would be making a master or two then casting resin duplicates. I may tend to go that route with so many windows.

Galen