Amtrak / PC GG-1 Passenger Car Variance

[Herc Driver]

:hey: OK you history experts...here's you chance!

I've got both the Amtrak and Penn Central versions of the Kato GG-1 in Nscale ordered - as well as the Kato Penn Central E8 and matching PC passenger car set. So, I have been pouring over pictures online of exactly what passenger cars they historically pulled. (Now, I plan on running my GG-1's on an "excursion" train with an Amtrak P42 supplying the actual power requirements for both train and system needs of the passenger cars. So typical excursion trains will include the GG-1, E8, P42 and a mix of Amtrak and PC cars.) But looking at the old pictures for some guidance, what I've noticed is the staggering amount of names on those passenger cars the GG-1 had in tow from the 1960's to 1983! It seems to me, a PC or Amtrak GG-1 pulled just about anything and everything. This is just a few of the names I've seen in those pictures: Southern Railway, Santa Fe, PC, Amtrak Phase 1, repainted PRR and NYC, and NJDOT. There are probably more names I'm leaving out, only because the passenger car was so dirty, I couldn't make out the names.

My question to the mighty Northeast Corridor Experts now at their keyboards is this: Is there a listing of the various railroads supplying passenger cars that were wrapped into Penn Central then later Amtrak?

The reason is a simple one...my LHS owner has two Walthers passenger cars in Atlantic Coast Line silver body/black roof colors, and I've seen lots of pictures of silver sided/black roof passenger cars just like these Walthers cars being pulled by the PC and Amtrak GG-1's, but can't make out the name on the real-life car. So you could be helping me create a more accurate excursion train mix of cars, and helping the economy and my LHS owner by convincing me of the historical significance of those cars that I have to buy them.

Would I be accurate to add the ACL cars - as well as other Northeast (fallen flag) passenger cars - to a mix of Amtrak Phase 1 and PC cars to a GG-1 excursion train? Granted, I realize that running an excursion train gives me free reign to pull just about anything I wanted, but I'd still like to honor the historical significance of the railroad history with the choice of cars being pulled.

Thanks guys.

[Puddlejumper]

Not only did the GG1s pull the cars with SCL and ACL markings, they pulled the WHOLE TRAINS. Even before Amtrak, the PRR hauled the ACL trains north of Washington D.C. I think the names were the same as they are now, the SILVER STAR, and the SILVER METEOR. I also would expect that Amtrak would have inherited those cars and continued to use them on the NEC, but I don't know for sure.

[P5se Camelback]

The whole time I was growing up on the "Mainline" outside Philadelphia and for the many years I lived there after the Army, I can only remember ever seeing a diesel on those tracks (GP 30's & GP35's) on long freights as helpers.

It was mostly all GG1's on passenger service, and E33's and E44's on mile-long freights (plus the omnipresent mP54 MUed "Red Cars," as everyone called them, even though they were faded Tuscan Red ... the "growlers" was their other nickname.)

[If memory serves, it was GG1 #4938 that got restored to Brunswick Green with the five gold stripes and was always spotless as she came through Narberth, PA at about 80+ mph, leaning into that curve in the late afternoon with one of the named, through trains bound for Harrisburg on the inside westbound track. What a sight!!]

Green Elite Cab can probably fill you in ... he seems to be the resident authority on Juice Jacks!

[Charlie B]

Most first class passenger service had sleepers that were interchanged between roads so the passengers didn't have to change trains. PRR had a silver sleeper assigned for use with the California Zephyr, the "Silver Rapids"
If you bought first class passage on the PRR you might be assigned a sleeper from another road that was making a return trip.
You could get away with running most any equipment other then a rival area road. You probably didn't see NYC on PRR until the merger took place, and then you saw CNJ commuter trains etc.
Now there will be more and better information from the corridor modelers.
Charlie

[BR60103]

My feeling is that any road from the south that came into Washington and had a train for New York would have turned it over to a GG1.
After Amtrak, there was a general pooling of passenger cars until they sorted out which ones were worth keeping. I think the first 5-10 years were referred to as the "rainbow era" as they mixed cars from all roads. Only caveat: no domes or double deckers under wires.

[Puddlejumper]

My feeling is that any road from the south that came into Washington and had a train for New York would have turned it over to a GG1.
After Amtrak, there was a general pooling of passenger cars until they sorted out which ones were worth keeping. I think the first 5-10 years were referred to as the "rainbow era" as they mixed cars from all roads. Only caveat: no domes or double deckers under wires.

Absolutely correct! Though, nowadays I'm not sure about that double decker statement, as Marc and Via, and Amtrak's Capitol Limited use double deckers under catenary.

As far as pre=Amtrak, yes any New York bound train from the south would have gotten a GG1 at Washington. I am sure the ACL Silver Meteor was one of them, the rest... well I just don't know. It is possible the Panama Limited AKA City of New Orleans was on the list as well. The Crescent? I think that stopped at Washington, but i'm not sure.

[Herc Driver]

I knew there was a wealth of information out there. Thanks guys for the info so far! I'd like to run what would be considered a "realistic" excursion train, well, more or less realistic. Picking the right string for a passenger consist for the Penn Central / Amtrak years is a challenge.

[BR60103]

Herc: what sort of excursion? Is it railfans or some other group?
Back when we were able to run excursions out of Toronto (until the late 70s), we usually ended up with passenger cars that weren't needed for the weekend: second string older cars that normally went in commuter trains. (looked like the old "American Flyer" cars) Sometimes we were able to get some of the newer cars (New=1954 build). Railfan excursions liked the idea of running equipment where it might not normally go. Our trips usually had a baggage car at the front for the tape recorder enthusiasts, and the club's car on the rear. Baggage car had big planks across the doors to keep us from falling out.
If it's the Knights of Pythias or some other respectable group, they might have to dig out the better quality cars.
Depending on the trip, there might be a small food-service car, unless the destination was serving food. Most of the cars would be coaches and not first class.