Montreal VIA hits teens
#1
3 graffiti "artists" have been struck and killed by a Montreal-bound VIA passenger train. Two "survivors" will likely be charged with a variety of offenses including trespassing and mischief.

This follow-up gives VIA's point of view, and a thought to the crew of the train who will have to deal with the fact they could not stop the train to avoid hitting the trespassing teens. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2010/11/01/graffiti-montreal-train.html">http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story ... train.html</a><!-- m -->

The original story (<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2010/10/31/montreal-train-accident.html">http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story ... ident.html</a><!-- m -->) made it sound like the teens were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, with no mention of trespassing or any fault on their part, and somehow implies that the trains should be more audible...???

Sad that the kids died, but entirely preventable.

Andrew
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#2
I'm finding it hard to read that news article and feel sympathy for the teens who were hit. Their actions were just plain irresponsible. Its like someone gives you a loaded hand gun and says, "Whatever you do don't point this at anyone, including yourself!" ...and then you stick the thing in your mouth with your finger on the trigger. Nope
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#3
Quote from the article:

"He agreed with Downey that sometimes the hobby can be dangerous and wonders what kind of "peer training," if any, the teens received."

Hobby? Since when is trespassing and vandalism and violating the law considered a hobby? But in our upsidedown world, it wouldn't surprise me if VIA Rail gets the blame, and has to do something to warn graffiti artists of the dangers. Maybe some big signs can be placed at popular grafitti spots - "Warning - the Surgeon General has determined that standing on railroad tracks can be dangerous to your health."

EDIT: Just dawned on me, VIA Rail is probably owned by the government, so maybe they get a reprieve.
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#4
It is sad they had to lose their lives from stupidity. I guess they'll be nominated for the Darwin Awards.
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#5
Gary S Wrote:Quote from the article:

"He agreed with Downey that sometimes the hobby can be dangerous and wonders what kind of "peer training," if any, the teens received."

Hobby? Since when is trespassing and vandalism and violating the law considered a hobby? But in our upsidedown world, it wouldn't surprise me if VIA Rail gets the blame, and has to do something to warn graffiti artists of the dangers. Maybe some big signs can be placed at popular grafitti spots - "Warning - the Surgeon General has determined that standing on railroad tracks can be dangerous to your health."

EDIT: Just dawned on me, VIA Rail is probably owned by the government, so maybe they get a reprieve.

VIA is indeed run/funded by the Canadian government, after CNR/CPR couldn't turn a profit on passenger trains.

I had the same thought about the use of the word "hobby" to define criminal (or at least misdemeanor) activities. I had an interesting discussion at lunch the other day with someone about how less and less of the language is meaning more and more, and how semantics are becoming so blurred. And then we wonder why we can't understand each other even though we use the same words.

Andrew
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#6
Gary S Wrote:Maybe some big signs can be placed at popular grafitti spots - "Warning - the Surgeon General has determined that standing on railroad tracks can be dangerous to your health."

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Justin Miller
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#7
I wonder if that's in an area where the local government has persuaded the Railway not to sound their horns?
David
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#8
BR60103 Wrote:I wonder if that's in an area where the local government has persuaded the Railway not to sound their horns?

Those no-whistle/horn laws are enacted for the same people who move near the airport and then complain it is loud... 35

On a serious note, it is scary how quiet the trains are. I was filming CPR's 2816 steamer when she was out here several years ago, and beforehand we saw a couple of diesels (don't know what) pulling TOFC. We did not hear the engine until it was almost on top of us. However, we had planned ahead, and had a vantage point well back from the tracks (and from RR property). Once the engines went by, the flat cars were very quiet as well.

Andrew
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#9
Trespassing is contrary to the law.

Spray painting graffitti is, in fact, defacing the property of another, also a legal offense.

Are we now to feel sorrow for a few youths who, at an hour when they should be either working the night shift or sleeping to prepare for resuming the job search in the morning, were intentionally, blatantly breaking several laws and in the process, lost their lives because of it?

I suppose the families of the deceased lawbreakers will now sue VIA Rail for large sums of money and some "touchy - feely" jury will award them millions of the evil profit-motivated railroad's money!

The whole thing disgusts me! These morons proved old Charlie's theory ... and the gene pool has been cleansed!

Hallelujah!

Is that cold and uncaring? I don't know ... my parents taught me to respect the property of others and to obey the law. For the most part, I did as was taught and have respect for both the law and the property of others. However, the way today's youth culture is, these miscreants will now be immortalized as some kind of sub-culture heros, to be revered and cannonized!

Back in the early '70's I saw a movie called "A Clockwork Orange," a tale of ultra-violence and a youth culture gone wrong by film Producer/Director Stanley Kubrick. At the time, I remember thinking, "If we're not careful, because of the way things seem to be going, one day that's how things will be." I still stand by that uncomfortable prediction ... we're almost there!
biL

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"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." ~~Abraham Lincoln
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#10
Guys --

In my opinion you are barking up the wrong tree here.

The original article (from October 31st) is just fine - it points out that the people struck most likely were trying to spray paint graffiti when they were struck by the train. No attempt whatsoever to make the claim that they were hit by no fault of their own, or to suggest that they were on the tracks for some legal and innocent reason when struck.

Also, it does *not* try to define the problem as the train being too quiet. The police constable interviewed points out that they people struck had been in a place where it was not smart to be, as local conditions at the place make it even harder than usual to hear an approaching train. No suggestion I was able to discern that the railroad was to blame for that.

On the other hand, in the followup article (from November 1st) there are things it would be possible to take issue with. Even though it briefly mentions trauma to railroad crews, it spends far too much (in my opinion) time on stuff like describing the vandals as "graffiti artists", talking about a tribute to one of them on YouTube, where in town you can see his "tags", and gives attention to a some "graffiti festival founder" who apparently feels that it is okay for "experienced" teenager vandals to trespass onto the railroad tracks to spray graffiti as long as they put a person on lookout duty to warn the others about approaching danger.

But nowhere in either of these two articles was it suggested that VIA rail was to blame for their trains being too quiet, or that these people were struck through no fault of their own. It was clear from the start that the people struck were trespassing, and that they had put themselves in a dangerous spot. Editorializing about how NIMBYs want quiet zones, and then blames the railroad for being too quiet seems somewhat overblown in this case.

Stein
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#11
I'm thinking the responses were an attempt at facetious humor aimed at the current societal trends of "being irresponsible is completely acceptable and desired and if something bad happens you are a victim" and "working hard and doing the right thing means you are gonna pay through the nose, sucker." The world has turned upside down.
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#12
Stein, your comments in the third paragraph re: the "follow-up" article makes my point exactly!

The process of hero-building has begun ...
biL

Lehigh Susquehanna & Western 

"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." ~~Abraham Lincoln
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#13
P5se Camelback Wrote:Stein, your comments in the third paragraph re: the "follow-up" article makes my point exactly!

The process of hero-building has begun ...

I did not say that there wasn't anything to grumble about in the articles. I said that there was not much cause to grumble about the railroad being blamed for killing innocent victims based on the articles linked to.

In my opinion there certainly is reason to complain about the newspaper in the followup article calling these people "artists". Defacing other people's property is vandalism, plain and simple.

And if I had done the interview with the founder of that Graffiti festival, I would have pressed him harder on the seemingly irresponsible attitude behind his statements. He seemed to feel that it was okay to go on the tracks as long as you had a lookout. I would have pressed him on why he did not feel responsible for the consequences of people like him encouraging young people to paint graffiti. "Experienced" people at age 17, my left foot.

But that still does not change the fact that the original article did not say what it was claimed it said - that the people struck were just poor innocent victims, and that the railroad was being blameed for the train being too quiet.

And it does not change the fact that there was no basis in either article for bringing in NIMBYs and quiet zones, how personal responsibility in modern society is going down the drain, and other standard complaints of aging conservatives.

It was an accident caused by stupid actions. That has happened before, and will happen again.

Also, it is not really an all that new development. Both my wife's dad and my own dad could easily have been killed by stupid acts around trains when they were teenagers - some 60 years ago.

Hanging by your hands from the railing of a road overpass, as a steam engine is passing below, is not necessarily a very smart and responsible thing to do. Doing so repeatedly is even more stupid.

Neither is getting into the cab of a steamed up engine and getting it moving, damaging the end wall of the goods shed of the station when you couldn't get it stopped. Or borrowing without permission a hand cart and going down the tracks to the next town a couple of minutes before the local train was scheduled.

Or driving cars at high speed on darkened country lanes.

They both were lucky enough to survive their foolish youth, and turn into reasonably responsible and respected adults, now being aged 78 and 75 respectively.

Youth will do stupid things. Sometimes they live to learn from their experiences. Sometimes they die.

Stein
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#14
a little harsh don't you think " and other standard complaints of aging conservatives" With any luck you too will live to be one of us. Icon_lol
Charlie
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#15
Charlie B Wrote:a little harsh don't you think " and other standard complaints of aging conservatives" With any luck you too will live to be one of us. Icon_lol
Charlie

HEY!!! Who are you callin' Conservative! I like to think of myself as Slightly Left of Center. Misngth
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