Adventures in Perspective
#1
I continued working on the backdrop this evening, moving to the right of the Chase bank building to the bayou. I don't usually do mock-ups when modeling, I typically dive right in and hope like crazy that it will turn out right. But so far, the backdrop has been a different story.... I have been doing some mock-ups, I suppose because I am in no way an artist, trying to make 2 dimensions look like three. I'm also finding that when dealing with perspective, mere millimeters will make a huge difference in the backdrop appearance.

On to the bayou... it goes pretty much straight across the layout, however it does have a couple minor curves, one at the front and one at the back as will be seen in the photos. For the experiments, I cut paper to fit down along the layout/backdrop junction, then made various attmepts at drawing what I envisioned the backdrop should be.

First photo, I tried minimal water. I think the small amount of water works, but the bayou looks to take a drastic left curve that would go under the building painted on the backdrop.

   

Second photo, I tried putting more water in, but left the top of the concrete slope where it was. This did give the effect that the bayou ran further back, but it still had the "sharp left curve" right past the shelf. It still looks like it would run under the building.

   

At this point, I figured out that it wasn't the water that was the problem, it was that the top part of the concrete was running horizontal. So, I tried curving the top of the concrete by raising it on the left and then slanting down to the right so the bayou looks like it goes further back into the scene. But now the concrete on the backdrop looks like it is higher up than the painted building's foundation. Not good! What to do now???? It dawned on me that the problem was the height of the concrete on the layout, pointed out byy the yellow arrow in the photo.

   

So, continuing the experiment, I began wondering if I could actually begin the perspective on the layout. I took some brown paper, and covered over the concrete, sort of sloping it down towards the backdrop. This can be seen in the next photo, the brown paper is covering about 1/4" of the concrete. The brown paper actually starts even with the top of the concrete, then slopes down to the backdrop. This would allow the top of the concrete on the backdrop to slope, yet still be lower than the painted building:

   

The last two photos are variations on the theme. I'll keep working on this to get it as good as it can be.

   

   

Being that it always helps to have stuff blocking the layout/backdrop junction, I may put a pipeline or two coming out of the ground and crossing over the bayou, with some supports. biL had posted photos of these awhile back. We also have plenty of those in Houston.

In retrospect, I wish I would have made the entire model bayou with some perspective, everything slightly less wide in the back. This would have helped the illusion. I also could have done that with South Wayside street.

I am interested in comments and suggestions before I paint this for real. Anyone?
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#2
Nice progress. From what I can see, you are making progress with every change. How does it look from track level view, rather than helicopter view? That's one problem with backdrops (and other aspects of our hobby). Sometimes it looks good in person, or in a trackside photo, but not both. I'm thinking some vegetation along the back side of the layout will help with the perspective.
--
Kevin
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#3
Thanks for mentioning that Kevin. I'll have to go check that out. The previous photos were from my eye level, and I didn't consider what would happen from different angles.

For now, I just got through doing one more test drawing. Here it is:

   

And then I put some pipes in front of it:

   

And the pipes from another angle. You mentioned vegetation... on the left side against the backdrop, there will be several trees right there. On the right side, there will be an asphalt lot and a chain link fence with weeds growing up, maybe a small tree right at the backdrop. And there will be larger trees just this side of the cork.

   
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#4
Now that's damn cool Thumbsup Thumbsup Thumbsup
Tom

Model Conrail

PM me to get a hold of me.
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#5
It just dawned on me, a painted street bridge in the background could do wonders and hide many of the problems of the receding bayou.
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#6
Gary S Wrote:It just dawned on me, a painted street bridge in the background could do wonders and hide many of the problems of the receding bayou.

That's a very good thought! I was wondering if this would be one of those areas where some would consider careful placement of a mirror - have the top of the mirror hidden by the pipe, and place it at a slight angle to the backdrop as to not reflect the train bridge. I know that was a common trick by a few classic modelers, but does anyone use mirrors on their backdrops anymore?
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#7
WOW!

I'm am so impressed! The progress here is absolutely top shelf! With each additional visual device it becomes more and more convincing!

Yeah, I know, I was going to sit back and shut up ...
... but I couldn't continue to sit on my hands ...
... this is truely GOOD STUFF!
biL

Lehigh Susquehanna & Western 

"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." ~~Abraham Lincoln
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#8
Gary,
The problem with backdrops, especially where water is involved, is that perspective is only right from one point of view. as soon as the viewpoint moves, perspective changes.......and begins to look............yeah.
The best backdrops I've seen ( I leave the backboard sky blue ) are Matte paintings, like those used in motion picture filming. The equivalent of that is the standard treeline, and distant hills scene.
My best recommendation is to determine the "standard viewing height" and build perspective from that viewpoint. ( and always photograph from that viewpoint )
In any event, may fortune favor you.
Pete
We always learn far more from our own mistakes, than we will ever learn from another's advice.
The greatest place to live life, is on the sharp leading edge of a learning curve.
Lead me not into temptation.....I can find it myself!
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#9
Holy moly! Gary - this is outstanding work. It is truly incredible to watch the evolution of your skills over the course of such a short time - looks like an evening or two in most cases...! Eek Big Grin

You may have a second career in you - I know a number of modellers here in Ottawa who do "free-lance" work for the city planning department, architectural firms and so on.


Andrew
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#10
Worship Worship
 My other car is a locomotive, ARHS restoration crew  
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#11
Kevin, I am not too keen on mirrors, mostly because I have never tried them.

biL, thanks again for the kind comments. And it amazes me how critical the dimensions are when doing something like this. Even the vertical cracks in the concrete have to be just at the correct angles, or the illusion is lost.

S-2-fiddy, you're correct, the perspective really only works from one view. I'll make the backdrop proper for the average height person running trains, and try to cover up the bad perspectives with trees on each side of the bayou. Kevin asked how it looks from low angle - the answer is it depends. Low enough, and the bridge blocks out the painted water. But looking just a touch over the bridge, the illusion is lost. The pipes help a little.

Andrew, thanks for the nice words. I appreciate you checking out my work.

E-paw, thanks!
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#12
Gary that is excellent! I really like the way the curve of the bayou leads the eye into the backdrop so convincingly. Covering the seam is the only challenge. A small foot bridge would do it. How about pipes crossing low from bank to bank to cover the seam? I really haven't seen waterways like this and don't kno what might be typical. Are there any flow control dams or gate or anything like that?

Ralph
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#13
The last version, I think you nailed it. It still looks good in the later photo when viewed from further to the right. I think for a bridge drawn on to work, the bridge would have to follow the same perspective, not just go straight across.

--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad of the 1950's in HO

Visit my web site to see layout progress and other information:
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#14
Back to the backdrop. I took some photos of this bridge near my workplace. Will see if I can incorporate it into the backdrop painting.

   
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#15
BINGO! Thumbsup
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