couplers

[sgtcarl1]

I have a question for anyone: I am up-grading my rolling stock and will be replacing many of my hook/horn couplers with knuckle couplers. I would like to use Kaydee couplers, but they seem to be quite expensive. Any way, I have observed that are are several different models/styles of them. Which is the best? Are any other couplers as good as Kaydee? I really don't want to spend money for a" name," if there is something that is comparable. Also, any suggestions as to what to with the hook/horn units? I have several unopened packages of them. Any body want them, you can have them for the postage.

[e-paw]

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[Charlie B]

Take it from cheap Charlie....buy the Kadee's If you buy the bulk packs it comes to just a little over a buck a car, and you can buy the Kadee #11 without the draft gear boxes which you don't need in most cases, and if you do I'll be glad to send you some. The bulk #11 (is the Kadee 5) which comes 20 pr to the pack without the draft gear.
The number 5 is the one that is most common, works for 95% of the cars and locomotives, and is an easy change out. I try to drill and tap all my cars for a 2-56 screw to hold the couples in place, but in most cases the clips etc that come with the body mount couples will work fine.
The proto couplers have a plastic "spring" to close them which seems to be very unreliable. I built a good number of P2K car kits that came with these couples, and I am replacing one almost every day because they won't stay closed.
Charlie

[P5se Camelback]

Sarge ...

In the beginning there were dummy couplers. And God saw that while they were prototypical looking, but were dumb, and didn't operate.

Then some "brilliant" hobbiest came up with the X2F (all new, cool stuff back then started with an "X," like the Bell/North American X-15 experimental aircraft) and the X2F operated (sort of) but they were very large and very Ugly.

Then two brothers in Oregon (Initials "K" and "D") developed a coupler that although a little larger than the prototype in scale, they did in fact operate ... and quite nicely! They patented their coupler.

When the patent ran out, others copied the basic idea of the Kadee, and although they others looked similar, they did not operate as reliably as the originals (as is so often the case.)

Yes, the Kadees are a bit more expensive than the many imitations ... but as with most other things, you get what you pay for.

Most of the couplers that have been causing problems uncoupling at inopportune times during operation sessions at my model railroad club are of the imitation variety. Most of them are being changed out for Kadees!

Do yourself and your wallet a favor! Buy Kadees in the very beginning and save the money you will most likely waste on buying other varieties first and then buying Kadees! I don't think you will be sorry. I have been putting Kadees on my rolling stock since the seventies and have never had a problem!


However you choose to go, may you have the best of luck!

[Russ Bellinis]

The Kadee #5 mentioned above is diecast metal. ALL of the kadee knockoffs are cheap plastic. The draw bars will tend to break on them, and if the draw bars don't break, I've never seen one that had a decent knuckle spring. Personally I'm going with Sergents on my home layout, but they are even more expensive than Kadees.

[BR60103]

Carl:
Kadees are pretty well totally compatible at the operating end, except fo some odd "scale" or "old-timey" ones. The difference at the other end is because there's never been a standard mount -- even bare floors came at different heights.
#5s and ones with similar shanks will mount in Athearn boxes and copies, but some boxes are not exact, so they made variations.
(When I started they only made 5 variants and even the Athearn one was brand new.)

[RobertInOntario]

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I was going to joke that maybe I should trade sgtcarl1 my collection of Kadees for his hook/horn couplers!

Guess I'll continue experimenting with Kadee shelf couplers and maybe longer Kadees, as well as some hook/horn ones, for my small layout.

Rob

[Sumpter250]

Walthers had a coupler "mount" that they used on their auto racks, and extra long flats. I used them on my C&NW METRA cars and they worked quite well.( allows the coupler, and draft gear box, to move side to side, giving better dependability in tight curve situations.
The other problem with the "non-KaDee", knock-offs, is that they are made with an "engineering plastic", which is quite "slippery". with the flexible shanks, they will uncouple under heavy draw bar pull.
It's KaDee's for me.

[P5se Camelback]

During the last Operating Session at the club, I was coming up the helix from La Junta (staging on the very bottom level) and at some point, I lost six 80' coaches as all that emerged from the tunnel portal east of Pueblo, CO was my D&RGW F7 A-B-A consist ... all by their lonesomes ... I had to back down the helix to retrieve the rest of my train ... which put me way behind schedule! (Had I been a more experienced operator on the layout, I would have noticed that my coaches were still just outside La Junta - the sensor LEDs on the fascia-mounted route map showed them there, plain as day!)

But the point of the story is that the head-end baggage cars had "knock-offs" on them, but only to the end of that session. While stopped at Pueblo, I filled out Bad Order cards on each of the baggage cars. They will both have Kadees by the next session!

[Green_Elite_Cab]

I agree, invest in a bulk pack of #5s. You really won't run out of them any time soon. It took me the better part of 4 years to finally use them all. you'd think 20 pairs isn't a whole lot, but when you consider most models these days already have knuckles, it becomes less and less necessary to refit the couplers.

Kadees are metal and fit nicely, so their parts don't usually jam, and they won't bend under pressure.

as noted, the cheaper McHenries are not necessarily worth it. If i had some McHenries with the metal coupler spring, i'd leave it until it breaks, but the plastic leaf spring won't last. Plastic McHenries are in several of my Bachmann and Athearn pieces, and they have a tendency to bend on the shanks, especially under load (my Bachmann E60CP literally cannot pull three coaches, the shank bends before it pulls).


Accurail's accumates are also problematic and don't work well. they tend to get jammed open, on top of not looking good.

Walthers had a coupler "mount" that they used on their auto racks, and extra long flats. I used them on my C&NW METRA cars and they worked quite well.( allows the coupler, and draft gear box, to move side to side, giving better dependability in tight curve situations.
The other problem with the "non-KaDee", knock-offs, is that they are made with an "engineering plastic", which is quite "slippery". with the flexible shanks, they will uncouple under heavy draw bar pull.
It's KaDee's for me.

I've had it or miss problems with those "swing" coupler mounts on the walthers cars. I have a fleet of maybe 17 working Comet II (Horizon) coaches/cabs and a few Amfleet Is, which have the same arrangement as your METRA/CN&W cars. The plastic panels holding the couplers in tend to sag and loosen over time, and the screws are often overtightened from the factory, stripping out the plastic. This lets the couplers hang to much. The problem was so bad on my NJ transit cars that I replaced all of them with Kadee #118s (which are technically prototypical). Even then, those panels yank off easily when the train jumps the rails.

The only good way i've figured is to remove the old couplers, build up a coupler pad with styrene, and mount the Kadee #5s in their draft boxes. I did this with my SEPTA set, and it works perfectly (though now they are close coupled, in the future i'll extend them out a little).

Then some "brilliant" hobbiest came up with the X2F (all new, cool stuff back then started with an "X," like the Bell/North American X-15 experimental aircraft) and the X2F operated (sort of) but they were very large and very Ugly.

YES! I saw that airplane when i was 10. it looked small even for me back then, but what an epic airplane. it would leave the SR71 in the dust.

[nachoman]

The horn-hooks get a bad reputation mostly because the look weird. But they also are sometimes problematic when backing, and more difficult to uncouple without lifting one car off the rails. But for just pulling a train foreword around a loop, the horn hooks may actually have less spontaneous uncoupling. When I first started putting Kadee #5 on cars, I was a little frustrated with the spontaneous uncoupling. My layout had 18" curves, #4 turnouts, and some rough trackwork. The Kadees were a little less forgiving with the less than-perfect-track. The horn-hooks have a substantial little barb on the end of the "hook" that keeps the couplers engaged. The Kadees have a smaller "barb", but require a little bronze spring to keep the knuckle closed and the cars coupled.

[sgtcarl1]

Thanks for all the input!! I just now sent an order to Kadee for the bulk pack of couplers, a uncoupling tool, and a drill and tap set! Rob, if you deide to keep using hook/horn couplers, like I said, I'll let you have them for postage.

[Green_Elite_Cab]

The horn-hooks get a bad reputation mostly because the look weird. But they also are sometimes problematic when backing, and more difficult to uncouple without lifting one car off the rails. But for just pulling a train foreword around a loop, the horn hooks may actually have less spontaneous uncoupling. When I first started putting Kadee #5 on cars, I was a little frustrated with the spontaneous uncoupling. My layout had 18" curves, #4 turnouts, and some rough trackwork. The Kadees were a little less forgiving with the less than-perfect-track. The horn-hooks have a substantial little barb on the end of the "hook" that keeps the couplers engaged. The Kadees have a smaller "barb", but require a little bronze spring to keep the knuckle closed and the cars coupled.

I use the horn hooks occasionally. I actually still use them on my Tank-Train kits, mostly because i ran out of kadees, but the rubber tubes between tank cars act as a buffer, and they remove alot of the problems associated with the horn hook couplers. Since i have roughly 13 of these cars, that is instance where i'd go right through a bulk pack of kadees in no time.

[Brakie]

There is another coupler that has gotten my attention and that is the Walthers Proto Max coupler which has a all metal shank and coupler head.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/920-6000">http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/920-6000</a><!-- m -->


I have several cars outfitted with these couplers and they work as well as a KD.

[Charlie B]

There is another coupler that has gotten my attention and that is the Walthers Proto Max coupler which has a all metal shank and coupler head.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/920-6000">http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/920-6000</a><!-- m -->


I have several cars outfitted with these couplers and they work as well as a KD.

These look good, and the price sure is good right now. Too bad I just got 5 packs of #11
Charlie