Hydrochloric Acid Spill

[MountainMan]

I'm sure most have seen the news about the evacuation of 265 homes for the day in order to deal with an HCl spill. What I'm hoping for here is some enlightenment on an interesting an perplexing issue.

Authorities keep telling us that they don;t know how much acid was in the tanker, which I find not only odd, but deliberately misleading:

1. I was under the impression that the shipping of hazardous materials required specific documentation.

2. The capacity of the tanker is known, and the experts have stated that the leak was approximately 75 gallons. If they can be that specific, they must have an expert estimate on the amount still in the tanker.

3. The tanker was pumped out into another tanker. I'm no rocket scientist, but if I know the capacity of the pump in gallons/minute and how long it took the pump to empty the tanker, I'll bet I can figure out how much acid that car was carrying.

Anyone with practical railroading experience want to enlighten me?

[iis612]

MM,

It has been a while since I worked for CSX (or for the Fire Department), but I still work in the transportation industry. Your beliefs and expectations are correct. Especially these days (Post 9/11). Every placarded HazMat has to have a manifest, the manifest contains all sorts of information, including volume in gallons. When a HazMat recovery team transloads a liquid load, they have to follow the exact equation you stated.
Either the information presented by whatever media source is skewed, or their is some mis-information being presented.


Matt

[MountainMan]

I appreciate your response. Turns out a "settlement team" from BNSF is now in Monument taking claims from those evacuated, and I think personally that BNSF is afraid of public opinion should the amount and frequency of these shipments become public knowledge. BNSF has o useful alternate route other than through Monument, and if adverse public opinion forced them to stop moving hazardous shipments...

[Tom]

It very well could have been an empty car. As odd as that sounds, even when empty, alot of times a car has risidual of several gallons in it. When those go on the ground, it's hard to tell how much risidual is actually in it.

[iis612]

It very well could have been an empty car. As odd as that sounds, even when empty, alot of times a car has risidual of several gallons in it. When those go on the ground, it's hard to tell how much risidual is actually in it.

Tom is absolutely correct. I forgot entirely about residual.

[iis612]

I appreciate your response. Turns out a "settlement team" from BNSF is now in Monument taking claims from those evacuated, and I think personally that BNSF is afraid of public opinion should the amount and frequency of these shipments become public knowledge. BNSF has o useful alternate route other than through Monument, and if adverse public opinion forced them to stop moving hazardous shipments...

All railroads want to have as much public support (or at least public complacency) as they can get, but rarely do they alter routes due to public support. By and large, most class 1 RR's are very safe. Accidents happen. I know that is of little consequence when it does happen. I guess Sir Topem Hat was not around to oversee things on the railway when that occurred.
I am not making jokes because I don't see this as anything but serious. Call it Gallow's Humor. Nor am I siding with BNSF. I have seen communities take on the rr and get nothing done. I have also seen communities win, at least in a compromise.

[dave1905]

Authorities keep telling us that they don;t know how much acid was in the tanker, which I find not only odd, but deliberately misleading:

1. I was under the impression that the shipping of hazardous materials required specific documentation.

The waybill/paperwork may say "a carload'" or the commodity might be listed by the weight. The paperwork documentation requirements are set by the Federal Government.

2. The capacity of the tanker is known, and the experts have stated that the leak was approximately 75 gallons. If they can be that specific, they must have an expert estimate on the amount still in the tanker.

Only if they know how much was in the car to begin with. Probably only the shipper would know that.

3. The tanker was pumped out into another tanker. I'm no rocket scientist, but if I know the capacity of the pump in gallons/minute and how long it took the pump to empty the tanker, I'll bet I can figure out how much acid that car was carrying.

It depends on how accurate you want to be. You know how much was pumped out, but you don't know how much residue is left in the tank. Is it 50 gallons? Is it 500 gallons? After the BP disaster are you going to quote a figure so 20 or 30 experts can speculate on a different number?
The other question is what difference does it make? Would you or the responders have done anything different if there was 10,000 gallons in the tank versus 15,000 gallons?

Remember that railroads HAVE to handle hazardous shipments. They have NO choice. One railroad tried to refuse a cross country hazmat shipment saying that the commodity was readily available in the area near the destination so there was no need to ship the hazmat halfway across the country. They lost and had to take the shipment because they are a common carrier. Of any of the transportation modes, rail is definitely one of the safest.

[dave1905]

BNSF has o useful alternate route other than through Monument, and if adverse public opinion forced them to stop moving hazardous shipments...

Maybe. Maybe not. Where do the alternate routes take the chemicals? Do they go through more populated areas? Do they take longer? Do they cross more rivers? Where was the car going?

The Federal Government makes the railroads evaluate the routes of certain hazmats. Fact is that about 75-80% of US main track miles carry hazmat of one form or another.

One locality had an issue with a hazmat car and everybody was in an uproar over why they would route hazmat through their city. The was going to that city's water treatment plant. So if they want running water they get the hazmat too.

[BR60103]

The alternatives are to ship by road and that could go anywhere, even down your street. Or by plane and fly it over your house.