Mixed trains on the CNR?
#1
I've been really enjoying Greg McDonnell's excellent book, "Canadian Pacific: Stand Fst, Craigellachie!" The photos in this book are excellent.

I noticed that, in the 1950s or so, the CPR often ran mixed trains -- i.e. a few freight cars, a combine and caboose. As I've noted elsewhere, I'm mainly a fan of British steam, and I know that they often ran mixed trains in the 1940s-50s, so I was a little surprised to find out that the CPR did this a fair bit as well.

Does anyone know if the CNR also ran mixed trains in the 1940s-60s?

Thanks,
Rob
Rob
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#2
Absolutely. Ian Wilson's books are a good source for 1950s CNR in southern Ontario, and there are lots of pictures of mixed trains.


Andrew
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#3
MasonJar Wrote:Absolutely. Ian Wilson's books are a good source for 1950s CNR in southern Ontario, and there are lots of pictures of mixed trains.


Andrew



Thanks, Andrew -- I suspected as much.

I also have "Canadian National Steam in Colour, Vol. 1," by Kevin Holland, and I could not find any pix of mixed trains in that book -- or at least any pix where you could tell (sometimes, when the loco is the main subject of the photo, you can't tell what kind of cars are behind it).

I'll have to try to buy 1-2 of Wilson's books then -- I've seen several for sale at various LHS's and heritage train sites. The ones about Toronto, London (Ont.) and Hamilton would be interesting for me.
Rob
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#4
Some Canadian mixed trains lasted into the VIA era. I don't recall offhand which ones, however.
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#5
Hello Rob---try the web-site for a list of Ian Wilson's books---"canadianbranchline.com"---go the the "home" page and look into the "bookstore" as the prices are really good
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#6
Rob,

Sorry - I should have included the info that Mr Nutbar graciously furnished... 35

And he's right - got to the source - not only has Ian dropped his prices, but he also offers free shipping from time to time.


Andrew
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#7
cn nutbar Wrote:Hello Rob---try the web-site for a list of Ian Wilson's books---"canadianbranchline.com"---go the the "home" page and look into the "bookstore" as the prices are really good


Thanks -- I'll try that!

Cheers,
Rob
Rob
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#8
Rob:
I picked up a CN timetable for 1960 on our holidays (going cheap in Florida).
If I read it correctly -- train number starting with M are mixed --
-all over Nfld
-Halifax-Yarmouth
-PEI
-Gaspe was Mixed and Railliner.
-a few in Quebec
-one of the trains from Palmerston to Kincardine (3 days a week)
-the Northern Ontario route had some every week but not covering the entire route.
-Atikokan to Rainy River; Port Arthur to Sioux Lookout
-Winnipeg to Victoria Beach
-Swan River to Hudson Bay, Sask
-Melville to Sturgis; Waboden to Gillam and a few other strips in northern Man and Sask
-lots out of Prince Albert (Dief was still the Chief that year!)
-a few in Alberta
-Blue River to Kamloops Jct in BC (3 a week) and McBride to Prince George


I think that the train to Flin Flon and The Pas was mixed into the VIA era -- they had some specially designated cars for this.
David
Moderato ma non troppo
Perth & Exeter Railway Company
Esquesing & Chinguacousy Radial Railway
In model railroading, there are between six and two hundred ways of performing a given task.
Most modellers can get two of them to work.
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#9
BR60103 Wrote:Rob:
I picked up a CN timetable for 1960 on our holidays (going cheap in Florida).
If I read it correctly -- train number starting with M are mixed --
-all over Nfld
-Halifax-Yarmouth
-PEI
-Gaspe was Mixed and Railliner.
-a few in Quebec
-one of the trains from Palmerston to Kincardine (3 days a week)
-the Northern Ontario route had some every week but not covering the entire route.
-Atikokan to Rainy River; Port Arthur to Sioux Lookout
-Winnipeg to Victoria Beach
-Swan River to Hudson Bay, Sask
-Melville to Sturgis; Waboden to Gillam and a few other strips in northern Man and Sask
-lots out of Prince Albert (Dief was still the Chief that year!)
-a few in Alberta
-Blue River to Kamloops Jct in BC (3 a week) and McBride to Prince George

I think that the train to Flin Flon and The Pas was mixed into the VIA era -- they had some specially designated cars for this.

Wow, thanks for this info, David. It's interesting to find all of this out. I hadn't thought much about it until I noticed so many in the above-mentioned CPR book. I knew there had been many mixed trains in Britain in the past but didn't realize it happened over here as well.
Rob
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#10
Sorry, one more question!

Did the CPR and CNR mixed trains usually have this arrangement: the freight cars placed behind the engine, followed by 1-2 passenger cars and then the caboose/van ... or could the passenger cars be mixed in anywhere?

Thanks again.
Rob
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#11
In the pictures I have seen, the passenger car(s) usually bring up the rear, and there is no van (caboose). When switching is required, the passenger car is spotted at the station first.

The other train you might see that looks similar to a mixed is a short passenger train. This will also have "freight" cars behind the engine - except they are really sealed baggage or express cars being forwarded along the line.

The header picture at Ian's site shows a mixed train with boxcars plus baggage and coach: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://canadianbranchline.com/">http://canadianbranchline.com/</a><!-- m -->

Can't have been a very quick way to travel... Icon_lol Big Grin


Andrew
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#12
MasonJar Wrote:In the pictures I have seen, the passenger car(s) usually bring up the rear, and there is no van (caboose). When switching is required, the passenger car is spotted at the station first.
The other train you might see that looks similar to a mixed is a short passenger train. This will also have "freight" cars behind the engine - except they are really sealed baggage or express cars being forwarded along the line.
The header picture at Ian's site shows a mixed train with boxcars plus baggage and coach: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://canadianbranchline.com/">http://canadianbranchline.com/</a><!-- m -->
Can't have been a very quick way to travel... Icon_lol Big Grin
Andrew

Thanks, Andrew! That's helpful. I like that pic on the Cdn Branchlines website too. In the above-mentioned CP book, there's at least 1-2 examples showing a caboose at the end -- a few freight cars, passenger car (often a combine) followed by a van -- but then maybe this simply was more of a CP practice? I guess traveling this way would have been fun for a rail-fan but not if you're in a hurry!

Cheers,
Rob
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#13
Hi Rob,

Did a bit more reading in Ian Wilson's Steam Over Palmerston this morning, and there are many references to mixed trains in the 1940s and 1950s. In the Kincardine Sub chapter, there are pictures and text about M331/332, the Kincardine Mixed. In the colour section of the book, there are pictures and references to the Durham Mixed.

Ian also describes the increase in mixed trains following the "curtailment" of way freight (presumably meaning way freight on its own). Several of the pictures show RPO cars as the baggage car, as the mail contract was ended in the Fall of 1956.

There is at least one picture that shows a standard 40' steel boxcar being used as an express baggage car - so that the passenger train actually has the appearance of a mixed train - although there are several passenger cars, not just one or two.

Note that none of the pictures of mixed trains shows a van on the end.

Steam Over Palmerston is sold out, but Steam Memories of Lindsay might give you the same sort of information.


Andrew
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#14
The schedule for M331/M332 for summer 1960:
Lv Palmerston 8:00 am
Ar Kincardine 11:25 am
Lv Kincardine 12:30 pm
Ar Palmerston 3:30 pm
distance is 66.5 miles.
The trip out spends 25 minutes at Listowel and 13 minutes on the trip back. The Railiner* takes 1:50 for the trip.


*note spelling: only one "l"
David
Moderato ma non troppo
Perth & Exeter Railway Company
Esquesing & Chinguacousy Radial Railway
In model railroading, there are between six and two hundred ways of performing a given task.
Most modellers can get two of them to work.
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#15
I think coaches were at the back so that they weren't involved in any shunting that went on. This would isolate them from steam heating and I suspect that they would be fitted with stoves.
David
Moderato ma non troppo
Perth & Exeter Railway Company
Esquesing & Chinguacousy Radial Railway
In model railroading, there are between six and two hundred ways of performing a given task.
Most modellers can get two of them to work.
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