Crossing Gates in Industrial Areas

[Gary S]

Say we have automatic gates at a grade crossing on a street in an industrial area. If the train is doing some switching where they get near the crossing but actually stop short and then back up into some spurs and such, can the crew bypass the automatic control and not have the gates come down? Seems there would be lots of situations where we wouldn't want to block the road just because a train was in the vicinity.

[faraway]

Gary, the operating manual of CSX ( 52293068-CSX-Operating-Rules-Signal-Aspects-and-Indications.pdf ) describes:

100-E
6. Manual Stopping Of Automatic Grade Crossing Warning Devices.
When operating conditions require the manual stopping of automatic grade crossing devices
the train dispatcher must be notified prior to operating these devices to obtain information
concerning approaching movements.
Train crews are responsible for the proper operation of all manual stopping devices as prescribed
in special instructions, and as posted at road crossing location.
The train dispatcher must be notified immediately when the operation of a manual interruption
of the automatic grade crossing warning device does not function properly.
Manual operation must not be used when a train is occupying the crossing.
When the warning is stopped manually, no movement may be made over these crossings
until:
A.Alternate warning is provided by on-ground personnel, or
B. The automatic warning devices are re-activated and proper warning is provided. If the
crossing is equipped with gates they must be in the horizontal position before movement
enters the crossing.
At locations where stopping the automatic warning devices affect adjacent tracks, an employee
must provide proper warning by;
A. On-ground personnel, or
B. Re-activate the automatic warning devices per posted instructions.

[mountaingoatgreg]

Generally speaking a train crew cannot touch anything to do with a crossing unless there is an emergency. Even then the signal cabinets are locked and would require a signal maimtainer to open them. In most industrial areas they have the bonds almost on top of the crossings. There are usally TOP signs posted at the bond andthe crews must stop and wait for 15 20 seconds before entering the crossing. The old rule use to say " suffecient" which was open for interpretation.

[Gary S]

Thanks so far, guys. This brings up another scenario. Over at the BNSF Mykawa Yard (or Pearland Yard), there is a main line crossing Almeda Genoa Road, with a couple sidings there too.



I have seen trains on the main going fast, at least 40 mph because Mykawa Road parallels the tracks so I can drive beside the trains. The crossing arms operate well in advance of the train getting to Almeda Genoa. Yet, I have seen the switch engines sitting within 30 feet of the crossing, with the gates up.

Hmmm.... I think I may have figured the answer. The detectors on the main are way back from the crossing, but on the sidings, they are much closer to the crossing. Make sense?

[mountaingoatgreg]

Gary,

The Approach circuit on a designated mainline must provide ample protection for a train traveling at track speed. The other tracks are bonded again probably 20 ft from the grade crossing and it will be the crews responsibility to wait the suffecient amount of time before fouling the crossing.

[Gary S]

Greg, that all makes sense.

Now, with what Reinhard posted, it seems that at least on the CXS, they did allow crews to disable a crossing signal?

Reason I am asking all this is because I plan to put working crossing signals on the layout. Not anytime soon, but doesn't hurt to start thinking about how they work.

[iis612]

When I worked for CSX, it was absolutely forbidden for train service crews to touch automatic crossing equipment. Not only would there be union issues, but termination would probably be right around the corner.

Matt

[FCIN]

Most railroad crossing signals and gates these days have an "Intelligent" track circuit. When a train enters the track circuit, it can detect whether or not the train is moving in the circuit. See this at all crossings around here on NS, CSX and RJC.

There is a 12 mile double track section on NS through Georgetown and track speed through there is 60 mph on both tracks. When a train enters the circuit 1/2 mile from the crossing, the gates come down as would be expected. But trains frequently stop in the circuit waiting to meet or be passed by other trains, so when the train stops moving, after about 30 seconds, the gates will automatically go back up.

Once the train begins to move, the gates will again come down. Doesn't matter where in the circuit the train stops. Some crews will pull down within 100 feet of the crossing; others will stop about 1/4 mile from the crossing to wait. It's a far cry from the way it was a few years ago.

When I worked for the L&N, there were several crossings where trains would often have to stop in the signal circuit and we simply opened a small box on the relay cabinet and pressed the "Deactivate" button to turn off the crossing signals. When we were ready to move, just pressed the button marked "Activate" and started the signals again. Was never necessary to get permission from the DI to do this. Locations of these signals that could be turned on and off where in the timetable special instructions and you were instructed to turn the signals off at any time a train or equipment was stopped in the circuit.

[Gary S]

Thanks guys. So on my little shortline industrial railroad, without a "mainline" per se, how would this stuff be handled, circa 1990?

I know alot of the prototype crossings in the industrial areas around where I work don't have crossing signals and the crews just flag the roads when crossing. But I would like one or two automatic crossing gates, but since these are in areas that would also see back and forth switching duty, I thought I might need some sort of manual over-ride.

Ed's comments seem to indicate that might be appropriate - a toggle switch on the fascia that could bypass the auto circuit.

[BR60103]

Gary:
our local station has a crossing at on end of the platform. There is also interlocking (junction with another Rly and a crossover) beyond the road. There is (or was when I took the train) an interlocking signal at the end of the crossing.
When a passenger train stopped in the station, after a certain period of time the interlocking signal would turn red and the crossing gates would go up. There was a button in a box in front of the station that would cause the gates to go down and the signal to change to a proceed. I believe that there was a block just in front of the signal and if the loco moved into this block they would also get the gates and signal.
I think (from overhearing trainmen) that they weren't supposed to cross into the next block until they were ready to go, but it sometimes happened.
This may be the situation at a freight only crossing; gates go up after a wait and then get dropped again if the train gets close to the crossing.

[mountaingoatgreg]

Gary,

In the mid 90's I bet a lot of these unique installations where still around. Railroads are really not big on changing things unless they have to. I would have working circuit that has a toggle override. You will need to issue a TT with Special Instructions on how to operate the "box"

[Gary S]

Thanks for all the great info, gentlemen.

Greg, I like your idea. Would have to come up with some rules based on Reinhard's posting of the CSX stuff above. Would add some "authenticity" to the operations. Cool!

[FCIN]

a toggle switch on the fascia that could bypass the auto circuit.

Haven't really looked in to it, since I'm some time away from getting in to such details, but I'm assuming that someone has DCC controllers that automatically operate crossing signals and gates like the prototype. Being able to switch them off when necessary would be a nice touch. I also like the simulated fusee protection on Lance Mindheim's layout which is another interesting operational feature. Ideas to add to the list of details to include on the layout at some point.

[rrinker]

Before they ripped out the track that ran through South Bethlehem, a group of us had the opportunity to be shown the equipment cabinets around the crossing of New Street by a signal maintainer. He mentioned that the detection system was speed sensitive, so that a train rolling along at road speed would trigger the gates to drop sooner than a switcher creeping through at 10 mph. All automatically handled by the track circuit, so the gates would be down in sufficient time to protect the crossing without having them drop too early when a slow train came through, causing peopel to start taking chances and drive or walk around the gate when they couldn't see a train in view.

--Randy

[Russ Bellinis]

I don't know how they worked; but, when I used to help out another mechanic at Sysco Foods which was right next to the U.P. mainline approaching the Industry Yard, I would notice that when a train stopped waiting for the yard lead to clear, the gates would go up and signals would stop flashing. When the train received clearance to enter the yard, the gates would come down, the signals would flash, and the engineer would "whistle" the crossing before proceeding.

There was another crossing right near the shop where I worked that was in an industrial area, not unlike the picture you showed of the Mykawa Yard. When the U.P. crews were working that area, it was common for the gates to be down while the train worked the local industries and the crossing would be blocked for as much as 1/2 hour or longer. It was also a spot where the U.P. would park empty double stacks, and break up the cuts to clear the crossings.