Alternative to the NMRA Master Model Railroader?
#46
Just to throw another "monkey wrench" into the works, Benny at the MRH forums has suggested that with enough money anyone can buy the technology to do virtually everything needed to scratch build anything to any standard. In effect you "scratch build" by using computers to design and manufacture all of the parts perfectly and put the "kit" together.

For me the entire MMR program is irrelevant. I want to build better models, but I'm not interested in filling out a form in 8-10 copies or whatever is required to tell a dozen judges what I did. In Southern Ca. the judging is pretty bad anyway. The basic problem in my opinion is that the MMR program should be entirely divorced from having anything to do with any contest. A contest by nature requires a first place, second place, third place, etc. The achievement program is supposed to measure achievement, not grade on a curve. The standards for achievement should eliminate as much as possible subjective factors and just measure the objective. Judging a paint job is of necessity somewhat subjective, but should not be too difficult to judge color is wrong, runs in paint, bare spots, rough spots, blurred lines, etc. When judging a locomotive or rolling stock for instance, everything should be as much like a pilot's pre-flight check list as possible. If the details are there and correct for the model based on a prototype, the modeler should get full credit for those details without having some judge who models steam and has no use for diesel giving a 50 to a well detailed diesel just because he doesn't consider any diesel engine to be worth wasting his time to judge!

At Anaheim at the NMRA convention in 2008 there were a bunch of very well done models, but none received enough points to earn a certificate. I'm not sure, but I think many of them had the bodies cut apart and all doors replaced with Canon parts, and were fully detailed with everything that would be visible on the prototype. Paint was flawless. None were good enough to receive a certificate? The other thing that I noticed at Anaheim was that there were more models on display in the Western Prototype Modelers room than in the contest room. I suspect that the achievement program is as irrelevant for the prototype modelers as it is for me.

I'm not going to knock any MMR or anyone who wishes to attain MMR. It just doesn't fit into my life or modeling goals.
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#47
since my previous post was a "long winded" one, I'll keep this one brief. On the MRH forum, Jack Hamilton, AP program chair for his region and mmr, chimed in. He made a number of interesting points. #1. Using technology is not "cheating. If you can use a cad program to draw up your project parts, a laser cutter to make everything, and just paint and assemble it, that is legal. #2. The AP program is not connected in any way to contest judging. In at least some regions, the AP committee will come to a person's home or make an appointment to meet with an individual to look at and judge a model for AP consideration. Whereas the contests require paperwork filled out multiple times so that each judge can take one piece of the form with him for judging, the model for the AP program can be discussed orally with the AP committee and awards issued. Jack mentioned that in many cases, he has gone to a modeler's layout to judge one item and noticed things on the layout that resulted in other AP certificates being issued, in some cases the individual even achieved enough certificates to qualify for mmr on the spot even though the person only intended to have one item judged.

I don't think I'm really interested in the program even with this new info, but I appreciate that Jack "set the record straight."

By the way, if anyone wants to read the discussion going on over at MRH, here is the link:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/5392">http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/5392</a><!-- m -->

Jack's response is on the 4th page.
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#48
Thanks, Russ. I've been following that thread as well over on the MRH forum.

Not to knock the current program, but I will say it's not for me. I have contemplated working on a few AP goals just to push myself, but I don't seem to enjoy the hobby as much when I do that.

Another thing is just what Jack mentioned - they have gone to visit a layout only to discover the modeler already meets the MMR status! Eek To me this somehow doesn't seem right. Was he working towards the MMR title when he did all the work? No? Then why should you hand him the title? Who does that benefit - him, or the NMRA? If the program is there to help you acheive, then how did it help him if he wasn't building all those models with the program in mind?

IN this case, Fred's 'bottom line' falls away. What happens when the modeler's self-imposed rules meet or surpass the outside organization's rules without realizing it?

We've already discussed here how many modelers we know that we'd consider 'masters' or modelers who seem to have acheived a level of skill in all areas of the hobby but who, for whatever reason, decide not to join the NMRA or participate in the AP/MMR program. It's good to hear from folks within the program who are finding it useful or helpful, or who take an encouraging position on the subject (we'll help you with the paperwork, the guidelines are flexible, e.g.).

Galen
I may not be a rivet counter, but I sure do like rivets!
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#49
ocalicreek Wrote:Another thing is just what Jack mentioned - they have gone to visit a layout only to discover the modeler already meets the MMR status! Eek To me this somehow doesn't seem right. Was he working towards the MMR title when he did all the work? No? Then why should you hand him the title? Who does that benefit - him, or the NMRA? If the program is there to help you acheive, then how did it help him if he wasn't building all those models with the program in mind?

IN this case, Fred's 'bottom line' falls away. What happens when the modeler's self-imposed rules meet or surpass the outside organization's rules without realizing it?
Galen

I think the answer here lies in the answer to the question of "What is the purpose of the achievement program?" If the modeler's work already exceeds the requirements of the achievement program and he is rewarded with mmr when he wasn't really planing to do so, does it really make any difference? If the achievement program is like a race (Daytona 500, for instance). I can go to Daytona and drive as fast as I want to on the track, but I don't win the Daytona 500 if I don't do it when NASCAR is running the race. The achievement program is not time driven. It is intended as a measurement of a modelers skills in many facets of the hobby. Whether one is specifically going for the mmr or achieves it when the committee comes by to judge one aspect and discovers that the modeler has already done what is required is really irrelevant. The issue is recognizing the skill level of the modeler. I think that was the intended purpose of the achievement program. The issue is "Did the modeler do the work, or did someone else do it for him?" If he did the work and meets the criteria, he deserves the certificates.
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#50
I was looking at the Achivement program for Electrical. I think I would qualify if I had some diagrams of the wiring. There are a lot of places where you get a list of 12 things and only have to do 3 of them.
I'd fall down on the building sections -- you need to scratchbuild something.
And I don't have any points for volunteering or electioneering.
David
Moderato ma non troppo
Perth & Exeter Railway Company
Esquesing & Chinguacousy Radial Railway
In model railroading, there are between six and two hundred ways of performing a given task.
Most modellers can get two of them to work.
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