Modeling Passenger Trains, Yay or Nay?

[e-paw]

sorry to say that I went with the last choice. It's only on the rare occasion that I run any kind of passenger equipment, I'm not even planing on a residential aria on my layout. I guess that I must have some kind of anti social streak in me.

[Green_Elite_Cab]

Much of the material on the Herron Pennsy Racetrack DVD came from David J. Williams III, a very prolific railfan film guy who also collected the older footage. He was particularly interested in electrics and interurbans; Herron has a Pocahontas Glory DVD with his films of the Virginian electrification. I've found zilch on this otherwise! Green Frog has Williams DVDs on the Milwaukee electrification and the Chicago interurbans. Emery Gulash is the gold standard on passenger trains, though. Oddly, I've been able to find very little biographical information on either individual (if anyone knew these guys, or has biographical info, I'd really be interested to hear it).

Ah, I have Emery's Penn Central set, as well as the PRR disc that came with it. The first two parts of the first volume were a little hard to swallow (81 minutes each!), but they were still a great way for me to get a feel of the time period. He also took some time to film the MP54s and Silverliner IIs on the Pennsy.

[Herc Driver]

I run them regularly. It may not be prototypical for my region of North Carolina, since scheduled Amtrak service terminates just north of my home area. But I've always like the idea of passenger rail travel and hopes it makes a comeback. Seeing the great trains of UP, SF, Southern and PRR run the layout bring us enjoyment.

[RobertInOntario]

I mostly run passenger trains on my small/mid-sized 1950s British 00 (similar to HO) layout. I think the British (and modellers of British trains) typically run more passenger trains on their layouts compared to North American ones (where it's the reverse).

[Russ Bellinis]

I run passenger trains on the modular set ups where the layout is big enough to run a passenger trains with a full complement of 85 foot cars. I model the Santa Fe in the mid 1950's on the module club layout, so AmTrak is still almost 20 years away from my era. suspect that one reason that modern passenger paint schemes are hard to find is that Walthers has an exclusive licensing agreement with AmTrak to produce their paint schemes and reproduce their trains. Part of the evidience of that agreement is that Horizon does not normally let anyone else distribute Athearn trains, but when Athearn comes out with a model of a modern AmTrak passenger locomotive, those models are offered by Walthers as well as Athearn, and Athearn does not offer modern Amtrak passenger cars. If you want to make a modern AmTrak passenger train, you might use an appropriate Athearn locomotive, but your cars will be Walthers products. When Athearn does come out with a modern passenger train, it is invariably in the livery of some local commuter service, like the New Mexico Rail Runner or the Southern California Coaster out of San Diego.

The problem with Walther for the you guys modeling modern passenger service is that, like most manufacturers, they focus on limited runs of what ever their current production is. They have been producing classic trains in recent years starting with their models of the Santa Fe Super Chief. The latest models are the Santa Fe El Capitan high level cars, but when they focus on older passenger trains, they are not making modern passenger trains, or at least not coming out with new paint schemes on the more modern trains.

If I ever get caught up with my house and other projects around the house to allow me the free time to join the La Mesa club at the San Diego Model Railroad Museum, I will probably model the San Francisco Chief to run on Tehachapi when I go down to operate there, but so far I don't have the time to run down there, so I have not pursued that plan. y home layout will be a relatively small isl featuring the Los Angeles Junction Railway in Vernon, Ca. so there will be no passenger service on my home layout.

[Green_Elite_Cab]

suspect that one reason that modern passenger paint schemes are hard to find is that Walthers has an exclusive licensing agreement with AmTrak to produce their paint schemes and reproduce their trains.

Sound reasoning on most of the Walthers stuff, but both Atlas and Bachmann produce Amtrak equipment (some would argue that despite paint scheme flaws, the Bachmann Amfleet I car is actually more realistic compared to the Walthers version).

As far as Athearn is concerned, I don't even think they ever did offer even a modern passenger car that wasn't a Bombardier Bi-level or an older streamliner in "new' colors.

[cn nutbar]

Hello Everyone---I model the mid-fifties when passenger service was still very prevelant throughout the country.The Canadian National and Canadian Pacific had trans-continental trains,most notably CNR's "Super Continental" and CPR's "Canadian" as well as intercity,commuter and branchline mixed trains.Personally I like the branchline trains the best---they were usually shorter consists of older heavyweight equipment with lots of head end equipment which could include reefers,boxcars,coal hoppers and even tank cars---when I run a passenger train,it's usually a branchline train even though I do have equipment to use in other passenger consists.
I think present day modellers are limited in their choices---Amtak or Via or commuter trains.They do have their own personal appeal but cannot match the individual and colourful consists of the" good old days"

[Russ Bellinis]

suspect that one reason that modern passenger paint schemes are hard to find is that Walthers has an exclusive licensing agreement with AmTrak to produce their paint schemes and reproduce their trains.

Sound reasoning on most of the Walthers stuff, but both Atlas and Bachmann produce Amtrak equipment (some would argue that despite paint scheme flaws, the Bachmann Amfleet I car is actually more realistic compared to the Walthers version).

As far as Athearn is concerned, I don't even think they ever did offer even a modern passenger car that wasn't a Bombardier Bi-level or an older streamliner in "new' colors.

I think both Atlas and Bachmann either have licensing agreements with Walthers, or Walthers lets them use their license because both Atlas and Bachmann allow Walthers to distribute their equipment. When ever Athearn has offered a locomotive newer than an F7 or Sdp40-2 in Amtrak colors since the Horizon take over, those Athearn models have been available from Walthers, nothing else made by Athearn or MDC is sold through Walthers. Horizon maintains exclusive distribution rights to Athearn & MDC. As far as modern passenger cars, Walthers made the passenger cars, but Athearn built the modern Ge Genesis locomotives to go with them. Athearn continues to offer the old F7 in the r-t-r line, but I don't think they offer it in Amtrak anymore even though that paint scheme would be appropriate for a modeler in the early to late 1970's era prior to AmTrak receiving the F40ph models.

[Green_Elite_Cab]

I think present day modellers are limited in their choices---Amtak or Via or commuter trains.They do have their own personal appeal but cannot match the individual and colourful consists of the" good old days"

I wouldn't say that modern Amtrak trains don't have individual consists either. Until a few years ago, a mix of of paint schemes could be seen, from some early schemes to the short lived "acela regional" paint with trippy color blobs similar to what is seen on the Acela Express. Long Distance trains on the Northeast Corridor are easy to tell from each other, consisting of cars of all different shapes and sizes (MHCs, heritage baggage and diner cars, viewliner sleepers, Amfleet I/II, Horizon fleet, etc).

Commuter trains are also not necessarily identical. In this 2007 view, from left to right, are "new" Comet V single level cars, a Comet IB (former 1968 St.Louis car co. Jersey Arrow I MU made into a cab car), a comet II coach (1983) behind the Comet IB, a Comet III Cab car from the early 90s, and a 1968 Comet I cab car (the original push pull commuter trains!). The only car classes missing are Comet IIM, and IV types, each with a different paint scheme, with or without center doors, and other details.

Only in the absolute most current day have many of those cars been retired, but even the 1968 cars (Comet I and former Arrows) have found uses on SEPTA and Western commuter roads. They could very well be plying the rails in Utah and California until after their 50th birthdays, definitely contrasting with all the Bombardier and Alstom products of recent times.

[jwb]

Actually, the ex NJDOT Comet I cars that were running on Metrolink are back in storage. New-generation cars from Rotem in Korea are on the property.
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The existing Bombardier cab cars are being converted to ordinary intermediate coaches, with the new Rotem design a result of several bad front-end collisions involving old-style cab cars.

There's a new generation of commuter and transit equipment, some of it very interesting and attractive. Unfortunately, especially outside the Northeast Corridor, not much available commercially for models.

[Green_Elite_Cab]

Wow, that is the first time i've even seen one of those! It looks like they actually put a locomotive cab on the end of cab car, it almost reminds me of the old New Haven Roger Willliams RDC set.

Utah's Front Runner seems to be doing well with them. Its almost hard to believe the cars are going on 50 years old. On the other hand, the "design" of the Comet type rail cars have not changed all that much over the years until Alstom came along with the Single level Comet Vs and Bi-level Comet VI.

[jwb]

In the 1960s, a guy had frequent photos in RMC's Boomer Trail where he made various items not available commercially by laminating tissue paper soaked in white glue over a wooden mandrel shaped to match the prototype. I think some of the ones he did were IC bi-level electrics, various early UP streamliners, maybe Milwaukee sky domes and such. That approach might work here, though you'd still have problems with paint and representing the windows.

Or, humm. You might be able to take a broadside photo, size it to scale, and print it out and then laminate it to a solid wood body, at least for the coach version. Quick and dirty, but you'd have something, anyhow.

[Green_Elite_Cab]

In the 1960s, a guy had frequent photos in RMC's Boomer Trail where he made various items not available commercially by laminating tissue paper soaked in white glue over a wooden mandrel shaped to match the prototype. I think some of the ones he did were IC bi-level electrics, various early UP streamliners, maybe Milwaukee sky domes and such. That approach might work here, though you'd still have problems with paint and representing the windows.

Or, humm. You might be able to take a broadside photo, size it to scale, and print it out and then laminate it to a solid wood body, at least for the coach version. Quick and dirty, but you'd have something, anyhow.

I saw something like that at a the "Mass Transit & Trolley Modeler's Convention", where a guy had assembled several commuter cars by lamintating posterboard. I got his card, and he was going to send me some plans for MP54s and similar commuter cars, but I never got around to contacting him (it was just around Mid terms last year, so I was preoccupied!).

Made entirely from paper! He had entered a LIRR MP54 in their contest, I think it did well. The pictures aren't fantastic, but there are New Haven "Washboard" EMUs, PRR MP54s, an LIRR MP54 (ping-pong type), a DL&W MU, and a few other New Haven and New York Central types that i'm not familiar with (this show is more Rapid Transit/Subways than full railroads). Apparently, he had a machine that cut the paper based on a computer drawing, and then he stuck it all together and painted it.

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Hopefully, I'll be able to go this year, since class is cancelled on that day. At least every year, they somehow take a picture of me driving someone crazy, asking to many questions. Can't let that stop now!

[pgandw]

None of the poll responses fit.

In 1900, choices for overland transport of people were trains (and trolleys), stage coaches, wagons, horseback, or by foot. So passenger traffic was a part of any railroad in that era. However, on short lines and in rural areas, running dedicated passenger trains often couldn't be justified. Hence, mixed trains were actually more common than dedicated passenger service off the beaten path.

On my logging line, passenger service - however rudimentary - was provided at dawn and at sunset to get workers into and out of the woods from the camp locations. Depending on the situation, it may be just an empty flat car, or it could be a real coach or combine to provide the service. Usually, the morning train would be taking empties to the woods along with the workers. The evening run would bring the last loads out along with the workers. Sundays would feature a dedicated train between the camps and the nearest town with a church. And in good weather, an excursion train and picnic on Sunday afternoons. A Saturday night train into town was strictly prohibited in order to encourage better morals in the camps!

just an example
Fred W

[jwb]

I think the 1950s and 1960s were some of the most interesting periods for passenger trains, not least because of the amount of mail and express traffic that was run. The manufacturers have actually been pretty good over the years about offering express box and refrigerator cars. Here are some:
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I just added an A-Line slider to this Athearn RTR CMO car. The Athearn RTR cars are good candidates, because the weights drill pretty well, and the brake gear is kinda wonky anyhow.
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Both Athearn SE and BevBel did FEC box express cars. I've seen film from about 1963 that shows them running on the Frisco, after FEC gave up passenger service, so these apparently got around.
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This is an ancient Red Ball wood and metal kit that I've redetailed and repainted several times.
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Mail and express trains also got power like FP7s. They're easier to run than trains with E units and 80-foot cars.
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