CSX Deland Spur, FL

[alcanman]

Hi,

Seeing Ed's (FCIN) excellent layout plans created with Anyrail has inspired me to try designing a plan for a new layout.

I want to try something different from my current layout CSX Palmetto Spur. Looking around for another Florida location,
I found a CSX branch off the Amtrak main line at Deland, FL approx 30 miles north of Orlando. The 3.5 mile branch serves
a plastics facility which receives plastic pellets in covered hoppers. Here's a pic

   

I plan using Walthers 'Magic Pan Bakeries' which includes 2 sets of unloading pipes in the kit

Also, I would like a different track arrangement from Palmetto, so I've included a run-around with a trailing spur
leading to a Food Processor or Warehouse.

Here's the track plan. measuring 9ft x 15ins

   

I would welcome your comments, suggestions etc. partiularly with regard to potential industries as I have little knowledge of
US operations. I would, however, like to include a hopper unloading facility
thanks,
Mal

[paulus_jas]

hi Mal,
I see just one problem.
If you like to take cars of the layout and put fresh one's on for the following shift by hand (fiddling), the yard lead would be my first candidate.
Not really easy to do since it is behind an industry. You could also use the the passing siding for fiddling. then I would probably use a left hand turnout at the left side of the the passing track.
Smile
Paul

[FCIN]

(...) Looking around for another Florida location, I found a CSX branch off the Amtrak main line at Deland, FL approx 30 miles north of Orlando. The 3.5 mile branch serves a plastics facility which receives plastic pellets in covered hoppers.

Hi Mal.
Probably not much help here, but it looks like the location where that photo was taken http://maps.google.com/maps?q=DeLand,+FL...a&t=h&z=19 is a trans-load facility where pellet cars are being off-loaded to trucks at that small shed with the piping you can see in the photo. The large warehouse structure to the west is vacant and for lease. Plenty of pellet cars waiting to be unloaded and you can see a tank truck heading for the trans-load shed in that Google view.

At the end of the spur, there is a short run-around and an out of service spur that lead to a Suburban Propane facility. There is also some sort of warehouse that still has the track in place, but doesn't look used. http://maps.google.com/maps?q=DeLand,+FL...a&t=h&z=18

Further to the southwest http://maps.google.com/maps?q=DeLand,+FL...a&t=h&z=18 are two other tracks and (so far) unidentified facilities. The Google view shows more pellet type covered hoppers at the south building and it looks like there may be a pneumatic discharge pipe running parallel to that track; very typical for many plastics manufacturing plants. At the north building there is a 25-30,000 gal tank car and and what looks like a gravity discharge covered hopper (trough hatch) on that track. Bing Birds Eye views are pretty good for viewing these areas too and may give more hints as to what is going at those two facilities. Google Street view doesn't reveal any signs that would indicate the nature of either facility.

One possible industry that immediately comes to mind for that area would be a warehouse that ships out citrus (oranges/grapefruit) during the harvest season, especially if you like reefers. But a small distribution warehouse might be a better choice.

(...)I would, however, like to include a hopper unloading facility

When you say a hopper unloading facility, are you referring to the plastic pellet hoppers or some other type of hopper such as the phosphate hoppers you see in the Florida area?

One interesting thing about this branch. It appears that the CSX local that switches the branch, does so with a locomotive on each end of the train. An interesting operating concept.

As for the track plan, I'm not sure how I'd set things up and operate it other than treat it like the train had just arrived at the industrial area (staged on the main at the left side of the plan) and then work the industries as required and end the session with the locomotive on the opposite end of the outbound train. Since the plan is just 9 feet long, I'd guess that a typical train would only consist of 2 or 3 inbound cars.

I'm not real sure if you'd have enough room to work the industry on the right side of the plan, without resorting to switching puzzle type moves, unless you did like CSX and use two locomotives, which could then eliminate the need for a run around track.

Perhaps you could move the runaround to the right end of the plan, similar to the prototype and have the staging area on the left side - something like this very rough plan?     On this quick plan I threw together, I placed a pellet trans-load on the front edge of the plan and suggest locations for two other industries. You could probably split up the Walther's kits and use them for two different industries. The pellet trans-load could of course be used for some other commodity. As I said, this is a very rough plan based on your space. I'm sure you can come up with something that suits you better and not end up with a Timesaver track plan!

By the way, does your layout have to be located in Florida or just have a CSX theme? If it's just a CSX theme, there are plenty of other places to look for interesting layout themes.

P.S. - I really enjoy playing around with that AnyRail program. Find it to be quite accurate as far as the switch templates. But I hate those little white dots that indicate where track sections join. A nice little thin black line would do nicely.

[alcanman]

Thanks guys,

Ed, your constructive and well informed reply is very helpful. I like your plan too.

Looking at the Google views, DeLand becomes even more interesting. I was expecting to find a large plastics facility
but ,as your mention, there is a very small Transload shed. Here's a pic

   

The structure would look good on the team track of Palmetto.

What I'm really looking for is a covered hopper unloading facility, using Walthers 'Magic Pan Bakeries',
particularly the 2 sets of unloading pipes and the silos. The remainder of the kit can be used for a warehouse.

   

You mention Phosphate hoppers seen in Florida. What type of industry do they serve? Do they use round hatch or trough hatch hoppers?
Another industry I'm aware of in Florida that receives covered hoppers is the Alexander Orr Water Treatment Plant in Miami Dade County,
however, I've no idea what commodity is being delivered there?

With regard to my layout plan, the idea is that a train will be staged on the lead track in front of the non-rail served wartehouse. This will allow the
train to be partially hidden in the 'urban canyon' before pulling forward into the run-around loop and switching industries. A very
similar arrangement to Palmetto, which works well.

As a big fan of Lance Mindheim, I really do like the Florida location.

Finally, I am really enjoying using AnyRail. Not sure if you are aware, but you can get rid of the little white dots by clicking on 'settings - connection
then change the value to '0'

regards,
Mal

[Londoner]

Mal

Looks like a neat facility, you coulld use Evergreen board and batten for the structure, painting it to represent metal siding. The greenery growing up the sides is crying out to be modelled as well.

The line was originally chartered as the Deland & St John's River RR a 3' line; unable to find what was built but it was taken over by the Atlantic Coast Line.

I found this which if you scroll down has some pictures which might be useful

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.trainweb.org/usarail/deland.htm">http://www.trainweb.org/usarail/deland.htm</a><!-- m -->

As Ed suggested you might add a citrus packing house, again this might be useful though it refers to earlier peiod so might not work with the plastic unloading facility

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.weirdus.com/states/florida/abandoned/old_citrus_packing_house/index.php">http://www.weirdus.com/states/florida/a ... /index.php</a><!-- m -->

Look forward to seeing how your layout progresses

Best
Ken

[kamerad47]

There is 1 problem with all of these layouts including mine !! No one makes a palastics trailer to transload too???

[FCIN]

That's a great photo of that interesting little trans-load shed. Similar type facilities can be found around the country, used for unloading various commodities and something worth considering adding to a layout. Small industry footprint, but with lots of rail activity. Good candidate for a team/trans-load track. Sort of have that same idea for my own layout.

My mention of the phosphate hoppers was probably a bad choice, just something that I know you see in Florida. They are not covered hoppers, but rather open hoppers (usually two bay) and are used for shipping out phosphate from various mining locations in the state.

The bakery (if used for its intended purpose) could receive either Airslide covered hoppers or pressure differential type covered hoppers (or both) of various types of flour. Been thinking about possibly having one of my industries representing a small bakery as a destination for my Airslide covered hoppers, rather than a chocolate or confection plant. Interesting, simple structure to use as a prototype can be found here: http://www.the-gauge.net/forum/viewtopic...=24&t=4788

It could also represent a plastics facility as per your original idea and would then receive pellet type covered hoppers, like those you see in the photos. Keep in mind that these pellet cars are usually 62 feet long. You could even have pellets being unloaded at both the plant and the trans-load. Perhaps one structure would be where covered hoppers are unloaded and the other where tank cars of some chemical are received.

If you're wanting to go strictly with a Florida location and CSX, then we'll have to look around on Google/Bing and see if there are some other interesting branch lines or locations that would work for you. There are some that are on the Pinsly lines (Florida Central, Florida Midland, Florida Northern) that would be interesting to use as the basis for a switching layout, but of course not CSX in the present era.

For whatever it's worth, I think you've done an outstanding job with your version of the Palmetto Spur and I personally would stay with that. Just a thought here, but have you considered making the two larger industries on your layout removable so that you could change them out to represent other industries from time to time? For instance, the warehouse might be replaced with a plastics facility and the food processor some other industry from time to time just so you could use different freight equipment on the layout.

Thanks for the tip about AnyRail. Guess I need to spend more time finding the hidden settings in that program, although I'm really spending way too much time on the computer when I should be working on the layout!

There is 1 problem with all of these layouts including mine !! No one makes a palastics trailer to transload too???

Couldn't agree more! I keep expecting to pick up an issue of MR or RMC and see that Athearn or someone has FINALLY produced models of these trailers. They'd sell out in nothing flat! Haven't really checked much, but perhaps there are some nice looking diecast models of these available somewhere in O, HO and N scale. Will have to look around some.

[Paulman]

Mal:

I've enjoyed your Florida modeling, and look forward to your next project. If you're still looking for potential pressurized hopper industries, here's one about 45 minutes from Deland in Eustis, FL. Tool World is a paint factory that gets regular shipments of pigment. This structure has some interesting elements. You've got the silos to add vertical interest, and some old Milwaukee boxcars that are attached to the buildings and used for storage or some other function (you can see them in Bing: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.bing.com/maps/explore/#5003/s=w&p=c/5872/style=auto&lat=nt6s32&lon=85s9c9&alt=-5.058944&z=20&h=90&pid=5874">http://www.bing.com/maps/explore/#5003/ ... 0&pid=5874</a><!-- m --> , as well as the caboose). Also, the office end of the factory used to be the Seaboard Coast Line's local freight depot.

Finally, Tool World has its own switcher in the form of a White Road Boss truck with a coupler mounted to the rear. Ivers Engineering made a metal kit that is a close match: TC-304 (info here: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.87thscale.info/images/Catalogues/IversEngineering-2.jpg">http://www.87thscale.info/images/Catalo ... ring-2.jpg</a><!-- m --> ). I found one on eBay after a few months of watching.

One catch; this industry is serviced by Florida Central, not CSX. But you also have tourist rails coming through: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.orangeblossomcannonball.com">http://www.orangeblossomcannonball.com</a><!-- m -->, so if you want to have steam passenger service running through the scene every now and then, you can.

[TTRAK_andrew]

G'day All, form a bit of web surfing it looks like "toolworld" is owned by a railfan. One of their trade marks is "color train paint":
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://trade.mar.cx/US73508859">http://trade.mar.cx/US73508859</a><!-- m -->
Plus if you look at their own web site:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://twiproducts.com/index.html">http://twiproducts.com/index.html</a><!-- m -->
and wait for the Flash Player type slide show to flow through you will see a "Railway Express Agency" sign on the office window.
Their products include `joint compound' and other plaster type products, hence the pneumatic discharge hoppers.
Looks like another goo0d industry for an ISL.
Regards,
Andrew G.

[TTRAK_andrew]

Big OOOPS! on my part as I re-read the original post about Toolworld. The railroad theme comes from the fact that half of the main building is the old Seaboard Coast Line freight shed for Eustis, which only adds to the flavor of it all. I would still stick to the pneumatic hoppers bringing in gypsum/plaster etc rather than paint pigments, unless it was a bulk paint base ingredient. One paint manufacturer I `surfed up' a few years ago had rail sidings for several tank cars stenciled with "titanium dioxide". Pigments would be more likely to be trucked in as from my limited knowledge they are normally pretty concentrated. However people with a greater knowledge of the paint business could well correct me.
Regards,
Andrew G.

[Paulman]

I just checked my notes; apparently they get limestone delivered by rail, not pigments... should have checked before posting!

And that SCL photo above is from 1972, so it was taken in the depot's last year of service.

RE the train theme: note the rails as parking bumpers. And a caboose!

[TTRAK_andrew]

G'day again all, The powdered limestone makes a lot of sense for use in making plaster, joint compound etc. I noticed that caboose has Tool World reporting marks despite the MoPac lettering, TWLX 11312. It gets two entries on the RR Picture archives web site:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPicture.aspx?id=329346">http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPict ... ?id=329346</a><!-- m -->
The caboose, what looks like air conditioning units on top of the box cars used as part of the factory building makes this a very inspiring industry to model, perhaps not part of an industrial park but on a modern era shortline, as Tool World actually is.
Regards, Andrew G.

[Southern Tuxedo]

Paulman,

Do you have any additional pictures of the White Road Boss truck? I'm always interested in how industries move railcars when a locomotive isn't present.

Mark

[alcanman]

Thanks to all for your interest, information, and kind remarks regarding Palmetto.

I certainly like the look of the facility at Toolworld, Eustis. Just the sort of thing I'm looking for.
I intend to look for more similar facilities in South/Central Florida to provide a location for the basis of the new layout.
If anyone has any more ideas or locations, I would be very pleased to hear from you.

As there are currently no signs of abandonment looming at Palmetto, the new project will probably not commence until spring 2012
at the earliest. This gives me plenty of time to find the right location and track plan.

Going back to the pic of the Transload shed at DeLand, I'm now thinking that such a structure would perfectly fit on the team track
at Palmetto. However, I am wondering how the structure would look from the trackside? Presumably, it would be open with piping/apparatus
to discharge the plastic pellets from a hopper car into a truck. Also, it difficult to see on Google but it looks the roof of the structure provides
cover for a truck whilst loading is proceeding.

Can anyone help, or provide pics of similar structures?

Thanks again,

Mal

[BOK]

For the ultimate in simplicity used for unloading plastic resin, I once switched a customer whose building was 50' away from the track, had no storage silo and no on site piping. The only indication of where to spot the car was a crude, inlet pipe that came up out of the ground about18" high and 8' away from the spur which also served other customers. This plastics company which manufactured plastic drain tile and flower pots received about one car a month and used the car as storage until mty.
After we spotted a car a workman would come out and hook up a 20' hose (use wire insulation or solder to simulate) to the car (this was a bit of a challenge in the Minnesota winter when he had to dig out the inlet pipe and un-cap it from the snow) walk back in the building (a Pike Stuff smaller industrial building would do nicely) then turn on the vacumn pump and begin unloading.
A very simple and modelable industry.

Barry