Track Rights on a shortline?

[Gary S]

My layout and railroad is similar to the LAJ in concept. Say I have a customer that receives a large number of incoming shipments from the Union Pacific which is interchanged to my railroad. Would there ever be a case where we would give track rights to the UP so they could deliver the incoming cars all the way to the customer instead of leaving them at the interchange for us to pick up and deliver? What would be the advantage of us having such an arrangement? Would the UP pay us a fee for using our track?

[FCIN]

Gary;

There is what is known as Reciprocal Switching in some locations. Here is a simple definition for reciprocal switching: "an interchange of inbound and outbound carload freight among railroads in which the cars are switched by one railroad to or from the siding of another under a regular switching charge that is usually absorbed by the carrier receiving the line-haul".

Been a long time since my freight agent/management days, but as I recall, we had this situation in Lexington, KY, between the L&N and the C&O on what was known as the Belt Line. In the 70's the switching charge was about $25 per car. Most of the traffic that I recall being handled this way consisted of lumber going to a couple of the lumber dealers located on the Belt Line. If the car came in via C&O, they'd deliver it or if it came in via L&N we'd deliver it. In most cases as I recall, the switching charge was added to the freight charge or included in the rate division.

Here's a link to the Union Pacific page pertaining to this service http://www.uprr.com/customers/shortline/...itch.shtml and also the current Union Pacific Reciprocal Switching Circular (PDF file) that shows the charges at various locations where it's in use: http://www.uprr.com/customers/shortline/..._uprsc.pdf. You'll note that the switching charges (just like demurrage charges) are much higher these days. You can do a Google search on Reciprocal Switching and probably get a lot more information if you're in to the freight rate end of things, but overall the answer to your question would be yes you can do that.

[Charlie B]

If the class one does the switching you get a fee for trackage rights, however, you lose your switching fee.
Short lines exist on revenue from the switching fees and car hire. Trackage right fees would not even pay to maintain the track, so I wouldn't do it that way. Consider a unit train of 100 cars with a fee of $200 a car vs trackage rights of say $1 a mile per car.
Our switching fee was absorbed by the class one, and we got paid twice a month. They were very prompt.
If you were talking about two big class ones servicing the same facility it is usually a point where things pretty much balance out.
Most short lines today are track that the class ones couldn't make money working trains over them so they sell them to small railroads.
On many shortlines you will see the same people running trains and doing maintenance work too.
Charlie

[Gary S]

Thanks for the replies, gentlemen. I guess I'm looking for a reason to have UP locos on my layout, just for some variety. But of course, I want the reason to be plausible. From Charlie's answer, it seems my shortline would not want to allow the UP engines on our tracks. I'm kind of in the middle on this right now. The good point of allowing trackage rights is I get to have a bigger variety of locos, the downside is I would have to spend $$$ on a couple new UP locos since i don't have any right now.

[jwb]

Specifically relating to the Los Angeles Junction, both UP and BNSF run trains onto yards belonging to the LAJ. The distance isn't all that great, but UP runs onto the LAJ off its line down Vernon Avenue and into LAJ's A Yard. There are signs on the interchange track reminding (according to my memory anyhow) UP crews of the LAJ speed limit. (That would certainly be a useful scenery item on a model.) Also, the BNSF has a regular pair of trains called LACBAR and BARLAC that run from Barstow to LAJ's C yard, also running onto the LAJ over interchange tracks. The LAJ is wholly owned by BNSF but provides a "neutral switching service", so traffic can also go onto UP.

The other side of the coin is that in the San Joaquin Valley, San Joaquin Valley Ry trains regularly operate over UP track to reach various isolated branches. Often modern spinoff lines use right of way that's actually leased from the Class I. I think this applies to a lot of RailAmerica lines. For that matter, especially where the short line is a spinoff of a Class I, they share interchange yards -- I think this happens in Palmer, MA, for instance, where a short line (Mass Central?), a regional (NECR) and CSX share an interchange yard. I'm actually a little surprised that so few modelers have taken up RailAmerica, since you can so easily find Florida East Coast locos in Vermont or California -- and so forth.

[faraway]

I think I understood some industries in Vernon are served by UP and/or LAJ. While UP has it's own tracks in Vernon there might be also some LAJ tracks used by UP to reach some industries.

[mountaingoatgreg]

Gary,

Not sure if any of your industries would justify a unit train, but often the power for the unit train would stay with the train. The crew would be from your shortline, but to the casual observer it would look liek the UP spotting up the industry. I have also seen where the facility may not be able to hold an entire unit train but it is brought to the customer 25 or so cars at a time, put back together then sent on its way.

I have seen also where if the line was taken over from a Class I they will hold onto the first couple of miles from the yard or junction to take care of a their customers but the shorltine has rights into the yard or to the junction. Usually over time the Class I will allow the shortline to take over the business as it saves them money.


You could also justify that they are doing so well that they leased some power from the UP.

[BR60103]

Gary:
In our neighbourhood, the GEXR runs trains about 20 miles over CN tracks to a yard (not sure which one) as the track they lease has a plain junction with CN and no significant yard tracks.
GEXR orginally had just a branch from Stratford where there is a lot of yard, but they then took over the whole line from Georgetown through Stratford to London. I don't know what they run to London.
For your starting concern, the last GEXR train I saw was pulled by GATX and FEC lettered geeps.

You could always rent a couple of UP locos when one of yours is in for major shop work.

[Mr Fixit]

On one or more occasions CN has delivered a unit to the EFRR for use during Public Relations exercises i.e. National Train Day and/or First Responder Exercises such as a Car/Train Crash Demonstration for local shool children.

In both cases using the shortline provided a railroad environment without the dispatchng nightmare/public liability risk of through trains running past the display area.

Just an idea for a cameo scene perhaps or a credible excuse for foreign power to visit your layout.

Mark

[Gary S]

Ed... I didn't thank you earlier for your response. Thanks for the thoughts and the links.

jwb: Since I do have a yard in the linear middle of the layout, I can make use of your suggestions for running the class 1 train all the way to that yard. Another option for me as i expand my operating ideas.

Greg: My GERN facility is big enough to provide for a "unit" train of fifteen 100 ton covered hoppers, or 14 of the three bay 3650 LOs. I can even get twenty cars if I use my "middle" yard as storage for loaded hoppers. Thanks for the suggestions.

BR and Mark, appreciate those suggestions too. As I start having ops sessions, I'll need a variety of trains to keep things interesting for the folks who operate with me.

My layout is really just a 170 foot long ISL with Class 1 interchange at both ends. Some of my industries are large enough and generate enough traffic to justify seperate trains instead of just the local switch job doing the work. This allows me to create a variety of trains to pick from during any given op session.

Again, thanks to everyone who has responded!

[railohio]

Normally a regional/shortline will have trackage rights on a larger railroad to facilitate interchange. Most large industries built in the modern (post-deregulation) era were located where two or more railroads came together to give more shipping options. They also locate on shortlines to get away from Class 1 railroads, lower switching costs and more interchanges available.

[Mr Fixit]

"Normally a regional/shortline will have trackage rights on a larger railroad to facilitate interchange. Most large industries built in the modern (post-deregulation) era were located where two or more railroads came together to give more shipping options. They also locate on shortlines to get away from Class 1 railroads, lower switching costs and more interchanges available."

Which is why the Effingham Railroad was developed from 1996 onwards, whereby it has interchange with CSX and CN [formerly IC] and is based in the Total Quality Warehouse [internal] through siding. Numerous clients of TQW benefited from the lower switching costs of a shortline including one very large cabinetmaking firm who previously had used their own siding on CSX. Having the interchange with both CSX and CN was the reason Krispy Kreme decided to build their second Manufacturing and Distibution Plant on line between 2002 and the end of 2007. The shortline is basically a two man, two locomotive operation with EFRR 2716 being equiped for remote control operation which is particularly useful when unloading aggregate trains for Mid-Illinois Concrete. There is a short U-Tube clip of EFRR 2716 unloading rock at the Mid-Illinois Concrete dump pit andbeing operated by blt pack remote control. Fred Frailey from TRAINS magazine also recently did an article on the railroad which can be viewed either in his blog at TRAINS or on the EFRR website at EFRR.com

Mark

[Russ Bellinis]

Gary, I noticed just before I retired that the U.P. had sold excess power to a leasing company, and then they leased back a Gp40-2 that was in U.P. colors with the reporting marks of the leasing company patched on the side of the Cab. I think they still had "Union Pacific" on the side of the long hood, but I retired in 2006 so I'm not trusting my memory completely on that point. You could patch a leasing company initials on the side of the cab of a U.P. loco, and run it as leased power on your short line. When U.P. merged with the S.P. right after the merger with the CNW they had a lot of excess power to get rid of. Some of the power was worn out old S.P. equipment as well as the old U.P. rebuilt Sw10's that U.P. had used for many years, but retired either just before or just after the mergers. Much of the locos went to the scrap yard, some of those old S.P. units burned out before they left U.P., but in the case of the Gp40-2 that I used to see in City Of Industry, the locomotive had just been shopped and received a fresh coat of U.P. armour yellow before they sold it.

[Gary S]

Russ,

Every now and then, I've seen a FURX loco in Houston, still in the UP yellow/gray scheme. I've always liked that, and is a definite possibility for my layout.

I'll probably end up with a couple UP locos, or maybe a UP and an SP with a UP patch. I think it is feasible to run a UP train from the interchange into the layout... perhaps my railroad is owned jointly by the BNSF and UP?

[Russ Bellinis]

Russ,

Every now and then, I've seen a FURX loco in Houston, still in the UP yellow/gray scheme. I've always liked that, and is a definite possibility for my layout.

I'll probably end up with a couple UP locos, or maybe a UP and an SP with a UP patch. I think it is feasible to run a UP train from the interchange into the layout... perhaps my railroad is owned jointly by the BNSF and UP?

It might be owned jointly by the BNSF & the UP, but that would be like a minor league baseball team being owned jointly by the Yankees and the Red Sox. I don't think there are two railroads in the country that dislike each other more than the U.P. and the Santa Fe in the old days, and I think that dislike extended to the BNSF when they merged. One reason for the BNSF merger was to avoid a hostile takeover of the Santa Fe by the U.P., and the U.P. was trying to take over the Santa Fe right up until the BNSF merger was settled.

You don't even need to do a U.. patch on an S.P. locomotive. U.P. sold off Sd40-2t's almost like the Santa Fe sold off CF7's. They are all over the country in short line or lease service.