Canadian Pacific 2-8-0 Kitbash

[Steamtrains]

Matt...That's one GREAT looking loco...Your patience and attention to detail are of Biblical proportions. Terrific work....

I did a kit build a few months back that nearly drove me up the wall at times....
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Look forward to seeing your work on the tender, and any future projects you may tackle....

[sailormatlac]

Matt...That's one GREAT looking loco...Your patience and attention to detail are of Biblical proportions. Terrific work....

I did a kit build a few months back that nearly drove me up the wall at times....
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viewtopic.php?f=17&t=4654

Look forward to seeing your work on the tender, and any future projects you may tackle....

Thank you for your interest! I stumbeld upon your project while searching the forum few weeks ago. I was impressed at how you managed to make all that brass pipings. Honestly, I admire people that start working on metal kits. Long ago, I tried my hand on a MDC 2-6-2 (tried to make it as a 2-6-0) and it turned out to be a total fiasco!

You may be right, Matt. I've only seen pictures of the other one. These engines were turn of the century and built for speed with the bigger drivers. CPR didn't have any small drivered 4-6-0's that I know of. Your 2-8-0 is a perfect fit for the Kootenays. CPR eventually used them to replace the 4-6-0's. Better tractive power for the grades and the mine runs. I could quite probably go with a 2-8-0 instead of the 52" 4-6-0, you're quite right. The 2-8-0's for the heavy lifting, the 4-6-0's for passenger and railfan runs.

Do you have to make a lot of changes to the tender on yours?

You're right. I'm remember a lot of old pictures from early 1920's showing coupled 2-8-0 pulling trains in the the Rockies. What I sight it was!

The locomotive kitbashing was mostly cosmetic. The tender will need a lot of reworking to change length, proportions and general aspect. I will also replace the trucks (hope to get them before Christmas) which means electrical wiring will have to be redone... I'll also check out if I cannot had a working headlight. I've seen a picture showing a N2c tender in the late 1950's having a locomotive pilot to run on mainline backward. That would be something very interesting to model.

A kind canadian gentleman sent me recently data for the tender which will be useful. I still need, at this point, to decide which tender type I choose. The typical tender for N2c had strange short wings near the coal bunker. Personally, I prefer the type with large wings... and healight. Anyway, at this point, I have to draw scale drawings of it before any chirurgical operation. Habitually, I use AutoCAD to draw the model and the prototype, then I compare how I can fit everything together.

Tender with long wings...


The CF tender with short wings...


The main difference between both locomotive is the headlight type and position. My kitbash is based on the CF prototype... I'd like to confirm a CF engine pulled a large wing tender at some point in history... but this may be quite hard to proove... Anyway, I've seen N2b engines with the same headlight position as N2c... which means I could do as I wish I think.

Matt

[alpha_1]

It sounds like your research is going well. That's a key to getting things done properly, I find. Never thought I'd be happy about the internet until now. If a guy looks hard enough, he'll probably find what he's looking for, either through new contacts or direct. I'm glad to see that you're really enjoying yourself with this project, Matt.

Good luck with that tender. If you check out yahoo groups there are a couple of Canadian railway groups, including CPR Hiistorical group that might be able to help.

Gotta run........Doctor. I'll talk to you later. Have lotsa fun!

[Steamtrains]

Matt...Don't know a thing about tenders.... :oops:

But that picture of #3759 is AWESOME....!!

[Eccentric-Crank]

Great stuff Matt,

Thisis my first post so I'll introduce myself.

I'v been modelling since around 1960.
I started restoring full size steam locos when I was 15 including ex-CP N2b 3716.
She definitely had a green cab interior.

I have som CPR standard cab interior green (and some other colous) that I'm planning to get scanned for the paint mix codes.
(go to cptracks.ca and join. When all the info is ready it will be online there)

You are quite correct when you say that the Spectrum line makes a good starting point for a number of kitbashes.

The "Russian Decapod" makes a creditable R class (I'm doing two right now) .

The N&W class J is a bit large for a CNR U4, but I laid it right on my scanner and layered it in photoshop, then imported the HO drawing and streched it to fit, so the proportions work.
This makes it easy to print templates to laminate on brass or plastic for cutting.

The sand dome on the Consolidations and the R2s should be round, so I made a mold of the dome on another engine that was about right wih children's modelling clay, and cast it in epoxy.

To fill the oval hole in the boiler jacket, I use some non-stretchy tape on the outside, well rubbed on around the hole and 5 minute epoxy on the inside, rocking it back and forth until it gels.

After the epoxy hardens, it gets a layer of epoxy saturated paper or other mesh on the inside for added strength.

When you peel off the tape you'l be amazed at how little filling and priming you need.

When I have more time I'll post some pictures.

I hope sombody finds this useful.

Cheers,

Eccentric-Crank.

PS warm-white Christmas LEDs are very handy especially at clearance prices.

[doctorwayne]

to Big Blue E-Crank. Your tip, quoted below, more than covered the cost of admission.

Wayne

To fill the oval hole in the boiler jacket, I use some non-stretchy tape on the outside, well rubbed on around the hole and 5 minute epoxy on the inside, rocking it back and forth until it gels.

After the epoxy hardens it gets a layer of epoxy saturated paper or other mesh on the inside for added strength.

When you peel off the tape you'l be amazed at how little filling and priming you need.

[sailormatlac]

Eccentric, thanks for the tips. They are more than useful! I must admit it would have been easier to fill the oval hole this way! I will never be afraid anymore of deplacing domes!

Looks like I'm not alone to use photoshop before selecting a model to bash! I always thought the J class could be a starting point for a U... I'm rather curious about the result!

I'v been modelling since around 1960.
I started resoring full size steam locos when I was 15 including ex-CP N2b 3716.
She definitely had a green cab interior.

Nice to have actual input! ;-) I'm actually wondering if I'm doing a N2b or a N2c... It's just a question of tender type. From what I've seen so far, N2b seem to have swapped tender often depending their affectation (some were oil-fired too). N2c seem to have stayed with their tender, the type I'm not interested in. My model have the flat illuminated front number board, not the triangular one... Maybe I should have gone with the triangular, it would be easier to pinpoint a spectific road number.

Tender bashing:

Just received my Commonwealth tender trucks from Athabasca today. They will need a little reworking, but that should be OK. Using Omer Lavallée's data, I used AutoCAD to draw the tender to size and see where I would have to cut the Spectrum shell to make it correct. The stock tender is 100mm long, the prototype should be 70mm.







The current challenge is to relocate the water hatch. A lot of triming to come on the upper deck.



Matt

[sailormatlac]

Matt...Don't know a thing about tenders.... :oops:

But that picture of #3759 is AWESOME....!!

That picture is really something. I'll try to reproduce the same weathering effects on the completed engine.

Matt

[alpha_1]

Nice goin' Matt. I'm getting excited about your tender. Keep 'er rollin' please.

Cheers!

[sailormatlac]

Nice goin' Matt. I'm getting excited about your tender. Keep 'er rollin' please.

Cheers!

Keep rolling?? Sorry about that, I was in a rush at job, having to complete a report by yesterday afternoon.

Started working seriously on the tender this morning. Removing paint and hiding joints. The good thing is that rivet lines on the tender top are at the right place. No quite prototypical on the sides thought... Well, there's a limit to crazyness.

Pieces glued together.



Some automotive putty to fill up the gaps.
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Sanding the putty to a get a level surface. It's where the water hatch will be located.



I removed the factory paint and thick Rock Island crest using 95% rubbing alcohol counpound. Works well on the black, but need a little bit of wet sanding on the logo.




The final product:



Now I'm the fun part start! Euh? No way... I've to figure out how I'll rework the underframe... CP tenders had a strange truck placement. In fact, the truck near the cab protruded one wheel in front of the tender shell. That could be a major problem for real time operation...

Matt

[sailormatlac]

I've decided to post this link:

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It's a good place to have a general overview of different engines from CPR N2 class.

With the help from people at CPsig, I've decided to model engine 3759 and built the cut-down switch tender. I think it will please few of you to see the model sports the same weathering effects! ;-)

Matt

[Russ Bellinis]

None of the photos in the link were taken from a straight on side view. As near as I could tell looking at them, the front truck of the tender has the front wheel just about even with front of the fireman's platform at the front of the tender. If you have a large radius, that will allow close coupling of the tender to the engine, I think you could model that feature without having operational problems. I would just mount the drawbar to the front truck mounting screw on the tender. Of course it won't work on anything much smaller than a 30 inch radius and might require an even larger radius. Of course the limiting factor on radius I think is how much space you have between the tender body and the back of the cab. Also the back of the cab being a solid wall, makes it difficult to do any sort of tight radius because a normal cab without a back wall might allow a tender to slightly encroach on a tight radius, no encroachment possible with your cab design on this model.

[sailormatlac]

None of the photos in the link were taken from a straight on side view. As near as I could tell looking at them, the front truck of the tender has the front wheel just about even with front of the fireman's platform at the front of the tender. If you have a large radius, that will allow close coupling of the tender to the engine, I think you could model that feature without having operational problems. I would just mount the drawbar to the front truck mounting screw on the tender. Of course it won't work on anything much smaller than a 30 inch radius and might require an even larger radius. Of course the limiting factor on radius I think is how much space you have between the tender body and the back of the cab. Also the back of the cab being a solid wall, makes it difficult to do any sort of tight radius because a normal cab without a back wall might allow a tender to slightly encroach on a tight radius, no encroachment possible with your cab design on this model.

Hi Russ,

I'm using a CPR diagram to locate the truck. The front wheel axle is almost aligned where the tender wall starts on the fireman platform. My minimum radius is 24" at some points on the layout. So close coupling is out of sight for me. However, I think your idea about mounting the drawbar on the truck screw is a neat solution to this problem.

The solid wall on the cab isn't as low as the cab ladders. It won't take a lot of grinding to make room for the platform.

Thanks for your input, helpful and at the right moment!

Matt

[sailormatlac]

Last shots before Christmas...

I resized the tender frame. The operation was straightforward, but I must admit I used CAD to decided where I would make the cuts. Some putty will be needed to completely hide the scars. Then, I'll work on the serious things: making the coal bunker and add details.

The original underframe with the kitbashed tender (I also removed a lot of things from the shell, including the fireman platform). I want to keep the same weight and their screw-mounted plastic pin.




The tender shell is ready to be redetailled.



Underframe ends in place, only need to resize the middle part.




Completed underframe:




Testing how everything works together. As pointed out by Russ, the cab will need a little grinding to accommodate the tender.




Merry Christmas everybody!

Matt

[sailormatlac]

Completed the tender bumps this morning.









Next step will be building the coal bunker.

Matt