Ongoing car advice

[teejay]

Long story , medium length .....

Years ago the Toronto Star " set up " a car by taking one of the spark plug wires and stripping out the inside of it ...it was essentially only a piece of rubber . They had the rest of the car checked out and all was fine , except the purposely stripped plug wire . They then put a woman driver in the car and had her go to about 10 different garages ( the motor was obviously missing , running on 7 cylinders ) ....both dealership garages and little corner garages . She told each garage rep the same scripted story ....the motor sounded funny and was not running smooth .
The paper then published the findings , complete with names of garages , on the front page . Out of all the garages , one got it right ....a little corner " Joes Garage " type place . The guy lifted the hood , listened to the motor , checked the plug wires and came back to the lady ......" I don't know where you got these plug wires , ma'am , but one is no good !
Lady says " How much will it cost to fix "
Garage Guy " I think I have an old used one out back you can have ....gimme a couple of $$ ...you'll be fine for now ."

All the other garages estimated repairs in the HUNDREDS of $$$ ( this was back in the 70's ) .....and NONE of them got the bad plug wire !

So yes , Robert , you have to be careful . Good Luck .

T

[RobertInOntario]

Long story , medium length .....

Years ago the Toronto Star " set up " a car by taking one of the spark plug wires and stripping out the inside of it ...it was essentially only a piece of rubber . They had the rest of the car checked out and all was fine , except the purposely stripped plug wire . They then put a woman driver in the car and had her go to about 10 different garages ( the motor was obviously missing , running on 7 cylinders ) ....both dealership garages and little corner garages . She told each garage rep the same scripted story ....the motor sounded funny and was not running smooth .
The paper then published the findings , complete with names of garages , on the front page . Out of all the garages , one got it right ....a little corner " Joes Garage " type place . The guy lifted the hood , listened to the motor , checked the plug wires and came back to the lady ......" I don't know where you got these plug wires , ma'am , but one is no good !
Lady says " How much will it cost to fix "
Garage Guy " I think I have an old used one out back you can have ....gimme a couple of $$ ...you'll be fine for now ."

All the other garages estimated repairs in the HUNDREDS of $$$ ( this was back in the 70's ) .....and NONE of them got the bad plug wire !

So yes , Robert , you have to be careful . Good Luck .

T

Yes, I do remember this ! -- or something like it, come to think of it. It was maybe 7-8 years ago?

[teejay]

That was back when I lived in Kitchener until ' 88 , but they may do a similar thing from time to time . The ones I like best are the sales scammers who sell used cars that have been written off as total wrecks but they don't say that . There are a lot of unscrupulous people out there , unfortunately , and it's tough to find a straight forward one . Then again , some consumers don't help themselves by looking for "too good to be true deals " . One of my inlaws ( outlaw ? ) got a BMW for way below market price a few years back ....turned out to be a stolen Beemer from Quebec and the cops tracked it down . He was mad at the guy who sold it , of course , but he also didn't help himself any by falling for a stupid deal ....ah well , the world is full of car stories .

T

[RobertInOntario]

Teejay,

I think what I saw was a TV show where they set up something similar. Maybe it was Twenty Minutes or Fifth Estate?

[Brakie]

Rob,Sounds like your Honda Civic is getting broken in..Sounds like your Subaru has seen better days.

I drive a '95 Buick LeSabre with 155,000 plus miles on it..I would think long and hard before buying another car since the Buick is in top mechanical shape even though the body is in fair shape..

As far as garages I avoid dealership and chain garages and look for a smaller independently operated garage since I find these guys are above board and have reasonable prices.

[teejay]

That's my kinda car Larry . When I left the car business I picked up an '01 Olds Aurora ...big Olds with a 3.5 6cyl . Before doing so , I did a bunch of research , and checked with some GM guys , and found out that the Aurora was very good quality in it's time . I really like it although it's too big for my wife to drive ...doesn't bother me any Some of the well made , older , luxury cars can be a good buy . I even checked with other Aurora owners and all gave a thumbs up .

T

[RobertInOntario]

Rob,Sounds like your Honda Civic is getting broken in..Sounds like your Subaru has seen better days.

I drive a '95 Buick LeSabre with 155,000 plus miles on it..I would think long and hard before buying another car since the Buick is in top mechanical shape even though the body is in fair shape..

As far as garages I avoid dealership and chain garages and look for a smaller independently operated garage since I find these guys are above board and have reasonable prices.

Yes, I prefer small garages. The first & third ones I used were small "mom & pop" garages (literally family run businesses). So I'm disappointed regarding the first one (which we've used for about 15 yrs) but relieved that the third one was straight up with us.

[Charlie B]

My son is one of the top Ford techs in the country. He wanted to have his own shop.
I asked him how he was going to keep up with technology if he wasn't going to Fords schools. The days of repairing a car without all the proper tools and diagnostics are long gone so be careful of the Mom and Pop garage. Many times all they can do is hang new parts until they get lucky, if they ever do.
New cars don't need to be maintained like they were 40 years ago. The engines are sealed better and don't need oil changed as often. Even the air filters don't need changed, and 100,000 mile spark plugs.
Most times an estimate from a REPUTABLE Dealer will be higher, but in the long run it will be cheaper.
Charlie

[RobertInOntario]

My son is one of the top Ford techs in the country. He wanted to have his own shop.
I asked him how he was going to keep up with technology if he wasn't going to Fords schools. The days of repairing a car without all the proper tools and diagnostics are long gone so be careful of the Mom and Pop garage. Many times all they can do is hang new parts until they get lucky, if they ever do.
New cars don't need to be maintained like they were 40 years ago. The engines are sealed better and don't need oil changed as often. Even the air filters don't need changed, and 100,000 mile spark plugs.
Most times an estimate from a REPUTABLE Dealer will be higher, but in the long run it will be cheaper.
Charlie

Thanks, Charlie. In my case, the strange thing was that the dealer was much cheaper in two cases. The local garage quoted $2,000 for a new clutch for the Subaru; the dealer quoted $1,000. The same local garage quoted approx. $3,500 for repairing the cylinder heads while the dealer quoted $1,750! Not sure why this is the case ... maybe Subaru's are so specialized that it's more economical for the dealer to source the parts, or maybe the dealer is using after-market parts?

[Charlie B]

Robert, in the 70's I was the Parts manager at a local Ford Dealer but I went to some of the tech schools just to be a little more up on the cars.
I had a wholesale customer that had a shop in town. He was replacing a timing gear set on a Mustang II V6. He called me because he couldn't get the crank pulley off.

I told him he needed a special puller. (He had about 30 years as a mechanic.) I told him I would bring the tool over and let him use it. When I got there he looked at the puller, told me it wouldn't work, because he had been trying with one that looked just like it.
Well, he tried it and the pulley was off in less than a minute. He had all ready spent the better part of the day trying to get it off. Now had he bought the parts from me instead of the NAPA store I would have told him this at the time and loaned him the tool.
I had trouble with wholesale customers because we only gave a 30% discount from list where the local parts stores would go 40 and 50 percent off list, thought their suggested list price was always 20 to 30 percent higher than a dealer on most items. I found that if we needed parts for a GM or Chrysler it was usually cheaper to go to the local dealer if he had the part. That is why sometimes the dealer is below the price of the independents.
I just sold a 94 ford truck with 84,000 miles and a lot of new parts including a 1200 dollar clutch job, because it didn't have AC. I replaced it with a Ford F150 2001 with 158,000 miles. I am not afraid of high miles. If it needs a $3000 repair job like a motor or a transmission, or both for 6000 I am still $14000 ahead of what a new truck would have cost. If a vehicle has rust problems that is a tough fix, not impossible, but the main reason IMHO to get rid of a car.
I am lucky because I still have living friends in the business, and when I need a vehicle I can get a good one at a good price. Teejay probably has the same good fortune.
Having said this I need to elaborate farther. I worked for 3 different dealerships under 3 different owners over a 20 year period. 3 of those dealers would steal the customers and the employee's blind. The other 2 were true gentlemen and honest as they come, and the best thing was the honest ones were the successful ones.
I also worked for 2 dual dealerships, Ford-Dodge, and after that stint I would not buy a Chrysler product. I never saw such a disorganized company when it comes to parts.
Charlie

[RobertInOntario]

The plot thickens even more. I'll try to be brief. I took the car to a fourth garage today, that's very close to home (recommended by neighbours). This shop had the car for a few hours and came up with some things that made sense and others that were different.

Basically, they said that the cylinder heads were NOT leaking oil but that there was a leak from the valve cover gaskets. The leak was so bad, that oil was getting into and around the spark plugs and causing damage. This would have caused the misfiring / rough running problem that we had in December when the car was cold. So this all makes sense. Replacing the valve gasket cover is a minor job.

(One of the spark plug wires was so bad, that they had to replace it with a non-Subaru wire, and said that this was only temporary -- definitely don't leave it for longterm. Not sure if this is a trick to get me back!)

However, they also found some problems in the lower ball joints of the steering.

All in all, they quoted $306 for replacing the valve cover gaskets, $400 for a tune-up and $370 for the ball joint repair.

Apparently, the first garage and the Subaru dealer may have misdiagnosed the problem as leaking valve cover gaskets could be mistaken as the cylinder heads leaking.

So the leak/misfiring problem is clearing up or making sense but now there's more confusion re the steering.

[tomustang]

Ford-Dodge, and after that stint I would not buy a Chrysler product.

Ah Ha!

See I'm not the only one who doesn't like chrysler because they're ridiculous

[tomustang]

Rob, not positive since I never worked on a subaru engine before but if it's leaking at the plugs/valve cover then it should be the gaskets that go from the valve cover to plug hole.

One of the spark plug wires was so bad, that they had to replace it with a non-Subaru wire

This worries me, are wire works or it doesnt, its not like you'd even need a thicker wire since the same current will travel through it since it's computer controlled

[RobertInOntario]

Rob, not positive since I never worked on a subaru engine before but if it's leaking at the plugs/valve cover then it should be the gaskets that go from the valve cover to plug hole.

One of the spark plug wires was so bad, that they had to replace it with a non-Subaru wire

This worries me, are wire works or it doesnt, its not like you'd even need a thicker wire since the same current will travel through it since it's computer controlled

Good point. I wondered if they just said that to get me back.

One of our neighbors is an avid car enthusiast -- owns 6 cars including two classic cars. He's already been giving me advice and I might run these latest findings by him this weekend.

At any rate they (4th garage) showed me the oil problem around the ignition wires and you could see it.

[Charlie B]

Ford-Dodge, and after that stint I would not buy a Chrysler product.

Ah Ha!

See I'm not the only one who doesn't like Chrysler because they're ridiculous

A couple of brief stories about Dodge in 1969. (I could tell many horror stories). We got a brand new Monaco loaded and the air conditioning parts were all in the trunk. They were running the line so fast because they were selling so many cars that some couldn't keep up.

The best though was our local police had 2 dodge cruisers, the full size cars, and they were dogs. At 4000 miles they ripped the teeth off the ring and pinion in the differential. I ordered the parts that should have been in it and they were wrong. Having gone that route with wrong parts I called the Parts rep and explained the problem. We were weeks trying different part numbers, none of them right. I finally told him flat out we wanted a complete housing assembly, which was not available. He did some real digging and sent me the right ring and pinion, which was from the 1957 autos. Seems they had a few left so they just built them into some cruisers. What a nightmare, and I can't imagine someone trying to restore a car that had this done.
It was a brand new assembly and if Ford would have done that the models would have been noted in the parts catalogue.