CBQ/BN/BNSF served industry in Chicago

[faraway]

I have problems finding information and photos about industry in the Chicago area served by CBQ/BN/BNSF. Did CBQ never emphasized direct service of local Chicago clients but concentrated on the west routes?

I am under the impression that local Chicago client switching was a primary goal of MILW/SOO/CP and therefor is a lot of information available ion the net. Some information could be found of CNW/UP in that business and the many short lines but that is another topic.

ps. I like the green BN switchers (SW1200, SW1500) and look for their usage in Chicago industry switching service. That is the background of my question.

[jwb]

While I'm not a Chicago specialist, I've looked at Chicago railroading enough over the years to say that a lot of the internal industry switching was handled by the belt and terminal lines, including B&O Chicago Terminal, Belt Railway of Chicago, Indiana Harbor Belt, EJ&E, Chicago & Western Indiana (lines going to Dearborn St Station), Illinois Northern (Santa Fe Chicago equivalent of the LAJ), Chicago Short Line, etc etc. Then some of the Class Is did have lines that extended into the city. The PRR was a major factor on the east side, and Union Station was basically a PRR project; Milwaukee on the north, also in large part due to its own route, stemming from the PRR, into the north side of Union Station. The CB&Q did have some industrial activity in the Cicero area on the west side of town.

The problem you're likely to have is that, even given the enormous variety in the Chicago area, it's going to be tough focusing on a single place that has everything you'd like. I've learned that in the "golden age" Epoche III-IV, there were definite railfan focal points. The junction at Griffith, IN was one, where a number of railroads met and crossed each other in a triangle of diamonds, as well as interchanged -- EJ&E, EL, GTW, and C&O. Englewood Union Station and the surrounding area were major focus points, PRR, RI, NYC, NKP, especially in Epoche III. There was a lot of industrial switching on the PRR in the area. Alton Junction, closer in to Union Station on the PRR, had that line crossing the GM&O, IC, and Santa Fe. The RI met a number of lines in the Blue Island area, and RI, PRR, IHB, B&OCT, and GTW transfer runs were common. The CB&Q/BN sort of had a straight shot to the west and didn't have the major crossings the other lines did. Its trains passed the coach yards of both the PRR and CB&Q south of Union Station, but then you get into passenger service, which is probably beyond your scope.

I like the CB&Q, although my personal view is that it got more interesting in the Denver area, and if I were to try to focus on Chicago, I'd want to be looking at the variety possible in transfer runs between yards, as well as trying to find a way to incorporate push-pull passenger service. The later you get, the easier this is to model as Metra covering most of the lines involved.

[faraway]

John, the problem is that I am doing reverse engineering starting with locomotive models I own or could buy easy and run smooth.
One of my fine engines are P2K BN SW1500 and Athearn BN SW1500. That is the reson for asking about CBQ/BN industry switching in Chicago. I got some Athearn SOO MP15AC and CP MP15AC but there is plenty of information on the net where and when they served industry. The third group are my Conrail SW1200 and SW1500 switchers That fit fine into Chicago.
The transfers have been and are still very important in Chicago but my layout is with an average "train length" of four cars is not really fit for transfers. That is the reason why I am looking for rail served industry. An engine with 1-4 cars looks fine serving small industry. It is basically the same prototype scenario I am looking for as I did in SoCal with Vernon etc.

[jwb]

I'm not completely sure why you feel your maximum train length should be 4 cars. That may be a convenient length for a particular industrial switch job, but as far as I can recall, the overall length of your space is in the 3-4 meter range. If I were taking somethng close to the track plan you have, if I had it to operate as my layout (which is a very, very unfair and even dangerous "if", but I'm just thinking here), I think I'd be interested in having at least one train in the range of a dozen cars long, which I think would fit in staging on the north side of your room. A dozen cars, 50 scale feet, comes to maybe 2 meters, probably an OK fit in staging. I run it as a "transfer" to the 3-track yard closest to the aisle on the south side of your room. I swap out four cars and return to staging with 8 old cars plus the four new, leaving four cars from staging in your yard. I then run the switcher to exchange those four with cars in industry. But this accounts for just one of your north side staging tracks. I can do several things, run another train, swapping out a new 4 and keeping 8, or I can just run a transfer with a dozen cars east-west or west-east without swapping cars.

It seems to me this gives you several advantages. One is better utilization of the equipment you have. Another is variety, the ability (especially in the Chicago area) to justify BN, Conrail, SOO, whatever equipment side by side. Another still is ability to run car types not justified by the specific industries on the layout. For instance, Conrail handled molten steel bottle cars in the Chicago area, as well as other places like Youngstown, OH, on transfer runs across the city, so you sort of get the advantage of steel-related traffic and equipment without the need for a steel mill.

Remember that even if someone says "I'm always going to model the LAJ, no matter what, no changes, must be just like the LAJ", you'd still have the potential interest of transfers off the UP and LACBAR-BARLAC freights from BNSF -- even a layout that specific would be doing interesting things beyond just industrial switch jobs.

[Sumpter250]

My primary connection with Railroading in Chicago, is with the C&NW, and the "J" (EJ&E), in the far north suburbs ( Waukegan, Libertyville, Mundelein ), and some SOO, Wisconsin Central, and now CN, around the crossing at Leithton, about a mile from my home.
The C&NW ( now UP ) had some industrial switching along the lake shore at one time, but I think they, and the "J" did more way freight operations, using geeps, or SD's.

[faraway]

Well, the four car limit is imposed by the available track space of the second longest track. The track would be "full" with a pair of Genset or GP60. It looks much better with a single MP15AC as shown on the photo. It is possible to redesign the track plan for longer tracks but that results not in a more prototypical track plan. However even six cars are a very short "train". That is the reason why I refrain from "trains" and stay with locals serving industry. It is mostly a question of personal taste and esthetic opinion.
CNW would be very prototypical but.... I simply do not like yellow/green paint scheme at all. Have one CNW engine buried deep in the cellar and did use it less than 3 minutes only However, I love and use UP GP15-1 on the layout. Morton salt is served by UP.

[jwb]

Why can't a LACBAR-BARLAC or equivalent train run clockwise out of stagimg onto the fourth track from the left with a dozen cars, drop four (or six or whatever will fit) onto one of the yard tracks, pick up an equivalent number, and depart clockwise in the same direction? No need to leave clearance for a runaround.

[faraway]

Why can't a LACBAR-BARLAC or equivalent train run clockwise out of stagimg onto the fourth track from the left with a dozen cars, drop four (or six or whatever will fit) onto one of the yard tracks, pick up an equivalent number, and depart clockwise in the same direction? No need to leave clearance for a runaround.

Sure I could do that and tried it but it looks awful. I prefer "less is more". The wide free space like Lance and Pelle do it is more esthetic to me.

But there is still the open question why do I find so little trace of BN switchers serving industry in Chicago?

[jwb]

I think CB&Q-BN turn over a lot of traffic to BRC etc at Cicero. If you want more CB&Q local work, you might think about the East St Louis area, where BN/Conrail come close together, but not SOO/MILW. Again, you've got the problem that there's no ideal prototype for what a lot of guys wind up wanting to do.

[faraway]

... Again, you've got the problem that there's no ideal prototype for what a lot of guys wind up wanting to do.

John, you are so very right. One of the reasons why I am rethinking the next rebuild fundamentally.

[dave_long]

May be not quite what your after but I'm a big fan of the now fallen flag central Illinois railroad, who used 3 SW9/1200s in the West Cermak st area. One was painted in CB&Q scheme. Since they folded BNSF now run their equipment down there.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?railroad=Central%20Illinois%20Railroad%20Co">http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos. ... lroad%20Co</a><!-- m -->.

Regards

[cnw1961]

Reinhard, here are some vids from the BNSF Chicago Lumber district that might interest you:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QYxw4ca0go">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QYxw4ca0go</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br3E8NSjecw">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br3E8NSjecw</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuW3R9Hv448">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuW3R9Hv448</a><!-- m -->

… and here is a map showing the tracks along Blue Island Ave and Cermak RD:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://maps.google.de/maps?q=cermak+rd,+chicago&hl=de&ll=41.850016,-87.659225&spn=0.014561,0.033023&sll=41.809452,-87.776985&sspn=0.233125,0.528374&hnear=Cermak+Rd,+Chicago,+Cook,+Illinois+60616,+Vereinigte+Staaten&t=m&z=16">http://maps.google.de/maps?q=cermak+rd, ... n&t=m&z=16</a><!-- m -->

… and the CIRY SWs that Dave mentioned are parked here:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://maps.google.de/maps?q=cermak+rd,+chicago&hl=de&ll=41.852751,-87.649064&spn=0.001287,0.002064&sll=41.809452,-87.776985&sspn=0.233125,0.528374&hnear=Cermak+Rd,+Chicago,+Cook,+Illinois+60616,+Vereinigte+Staaten&t=h&z=20">http://maps.google.de/maps?q=cermak+rd, ... n&t=h&z=20</a><!-- m -->

… and a few vids showing them on their last day working the Lumber district:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooySb-vxzlM">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooySb-vxzlM</a><!-- m -->

[faraway]

Kurt, thanks for the Youtube videos around Cermak Rd. I scanned that tracks with street view many times but could not find videos or photos of the actual operation. They are very much welcome!

[shortliner]

Reinhard - there is a thread here in a closed section of RMweb (an earlier version of that forum) <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3919&start=225">http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic. ... &start=225</a><!-- m --> that may give you some ideas - we had a series including a load of Youtube links, on Chicago switching, but I can't find it - though I will keep looking
EDIT - this may have been one of them <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QYxw4ca0go">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QYxw4ca0go</a><!-- m -->
Edit2 - Putting <switching RR chicago> into Youtube will bring up lots of suggestions