Minimum depth of "water".

[tetters]

For poops and giggles I decided to e-mail Unreal Details the makers of Magic Water my dilemma. I received a very prompt response from them.

-----Original Message-----
From: <!-- e --><a href="mailto:unrealdetails@aol.com">unrealdetails@aol.com</a><!-- e --> <unrealdetails@aol.com>
To:
Sent: Wed Feb 04 17:32:18 2009
Subject: Re: Magic Water

Hi Shane! You have 8 Sq feet of area to cover. My 96oz size will cover 11 sq feet 1/8" deep. 1/8" to 1/4" deep should be plenty deep especially since you are simulating a deep body of water and are painting the base a dark color. I would go with the 96oz and if you feel you want it deeper you can always add more. Most pours average this depth unless you want to see true depth and are submerging large objects in the product, like a submarine or large fish etc. Theres an article on the cover of the current Feb issue of Model Railroader Magazine where they have done the Milwaukee Harbor with my stuff. I assure you in any case you will love this product. Thanks very much for writing and I hope Ive answered your questions, if not let me know. Sincerely, Dave Williams


-----Original Message-----
From:
To: <!-- e --><a href="mailto:Unrealdetails@aol.com">Unrealdetails@aol.com</a><!-- e -->
Sent: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 2:35 pm
Subject: Magic Water


Good Afternoon,

I’m planning a fairly large harbor scene for an HO scale model rail road. The lake bed measures approximately 12” x 96” x .5” depth which I think equals 576 cubic inches. Converted to ounces I get 319 U.S. liquid ounces. My questions are, what would you recommend would be a reasonable depth to pour? Is ½ an inch too much, could I get away with a ¼ of an inch and still create the illusion of a deep harbor docking area? I planned on painting the lake bed a base color of a dark blue/green color.

Either way, how much Magic Water would I be looking at purchasing here in order to complete my setting?

One problem...The 96oz kit costs $100.00 USD. (gulps)...that's a rather tough amount to swallow.

[cnw1961]

I’ll be the last one to call for the prototype police .... just wanted to hint at it. BTW, did you see that I edited my last post? The bird’s eye view showing the car float is very interesting.

[tetters]

I just did. That is a fantastic aerial shot! The float looks nearly identical to the Walther's one too! Lots of good detail to pick up out on that too. If I had the room, I'd model the decrepit float apron to the right as well. Why is it when I hunt for this stuff myself I can never find it. You are a big help as usual Kurt. Thanks again!


I also edited my last post too. I'm still weeks away from doing any serious build. So I may yet find something to change my mind.

[Ralph]

Hi Tetters,

I've shown pics of my car float before but maybe they'll be helpful. The water is made by spreading joint compound on a white shelf board, rippling the damp compound with a natural sponge, coloring it with undiluted Woodland Scenes "Stone Grey", and covering it with several layers of acrylic gloss medium.

A couple of overall shots...




Close up shots of water...white ripples are cotton wadding soaked in gloss medium.




Ralph

[tetters]

Thanks Ralph. Those are great pictures and definitely inspirational examples to strive towards!

Did you apply the acrylic medium with the float and tug in place? I'm undecided whether I should apply the medium while they are in place or let them set on top, in case I need to remove them. :?

[Ralph]

Tetters,

The float and tug were originally just blocks of wood that I set in place on the base when I spread the joint compound so I could have the boats look like they were "in" the water. I removed the wood blocks when the joint compound was still drying and repaired any little cracks from pulling them up. I painted the joint compound without the boats in place but did install the finished boat models before applying the gloss medium.

Looking back on it I wish I'd made more than one float so I could exchange them using the so called "cassette" system of staging. The gloss medium has pretty much secured my float to the base now.
Ralph

[tetters]

Tetters,

The float and tug were originally just blocks of wood that I set in place on the base when I spread the joint compound so I could have the boats look like they were "in" the water. I removed the wood blocks when the joint compound was still drying and repaired any little cracks from pulling them up. I painted the joint compound without the boats in place but did install the finished boat models before applying the gloss medium.

Looking back on it I wish I'd made more than one float so I could exchange them using the so called "cassette" system of staging. The gloss medium has pretty much secured my float to the base now.
Ralph

Interesting. I just had a thought. On Miles' tutorial he mentions using wax paper in between the water medium and the metal braces he used for the dam. I wonder if wrapping the blocks in wax paper would make them easier to remove? Perhaps he'll chime in and impart some wisdom for us.

[LynnB]

The gloss medium is probably the way to go if you want the illusion of depth and is very forgiving , if you don't like the results just sand down and repeat.

[Steamtrains]

I know absolutely nuttin' about modeling water, but 96oz. of anything is a hard amount to swallow...!!!!

[doctorwayne]

Shane, as I pointed out in Miles' THREAD, your harbour doesn't need to be poured at all. The appearance will depend on the material which you use, and the colours with which you paint it. I can't think of any harbours where you can see into the water more than a couple of inches, so you only need to model the surface. And, while it's possible for a harbour to be as smooth as glass, more than likely there'd be some waves, or chop. Ralph's method looks good, is low-cost, and is easy-to-do - there's no need to complicate the equation.
The similar method which I used to model water is also low-cost and easy-to-do, although I substituted Durabond patching plaster for the "structure" of the water (it's much harder than joint compound, allowing me to place the camera atop the water for better shooting angles. Stands up well to dusting and vacuuming, too.) I also used water-based high gloss urethane, rather than gloss medium, to make it look "wet". The paint was latex house paint, so the tools needed are a paint brush or two, and a putty knife or drywall knife, and a sponge. No odours from any of the materials, and no worries about the "water" leaking out somewhere. The colours you choose can impart depth to the water, so varying them can also suggest more shallow areas, too.
The texture which you give to the surface, combined with the colours you choose, can set the mood for your whole harbour scene.
If you want a removeable carfloat, wrap it in Saran or similar material before pouring the plaster: of course, if you plan on exchanging a full one with an empty one, you'll need at least two the same, as they'll both need to fit the same impression in the "water". Another option is to use "waterline" models, in which the part of the barge under the water is not modelled at all, with the visible part simply sitting atop the surface of the "water" - in this case, you'll need to keep the modelled "waves" fairly low.

Wayne

[tetters]

Absolutely Wayne,

I am thinking that the Durabond and urethane method is the best way to go. Seems like it is much easier to control and shape as you, Miles, and Ralph have mentioned. I appreciate the feedback and help with this. You guys probably saved me from a total disaster in the making. hock:

And thanks for the tip about saran wrap...I'll chalk that up in the, "Its so darn obvious, why didn't I think of it?" category of thoughts.

Still a ways to go until I get to that point. I have to wait until March Break to start the major ground work for my rebuild.