Tank car era question

[Ralph]

I went to the Twin Cities Model Railroad sale at the State Fairgrounds today and, among other things, purchased six Walthers Trainline tank cars for $5.00 each. Seemed like a great deal...and I was looking for tankers. They are all lettered for Gulf and look like this: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/v/vspfiles/photos/931-1612-2.gif">http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/v/vspfil ... 1612-2.gif</a><!-- m -->

I did some research and only found one prototype pic of such a car...so I was able to at least confirm that this was a genuine scheme. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://cdm16688.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/p16688coll2/id/24">http://cdm16688.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ ... oll2/id/24</a><!-- m -->

If I'm reading the description below the prototype photo correctly it seems to indicate that the original photo was taken in September of 1968, which is perfect for my Penn Central era. I was wondering if anyone has anymore information about these Gulf cars or cars of similar make. I'd like to further confirm that they might be appropriate for a late 60's early 70's time frame.

I'm planning to turn my Kings Port Oil Supply into a Gulf Oil Co. facility.

Thanks!

[lajry]

Ralph
There's a few questions you need to answer before get too carried away w/ your Gulf tank cars.
Just because both your models & prototype pix say Gulf are they the same car i.e. is the Walthers car a duplicate of the prototype car? What are the built/new dates of the model & prototype (cars from '20s-'30s didn't last into the '60s-'70)s. Do the capacities of the model & prototype match? Were 8052 gal. tank cars used that much in the '60s- '70s?

[Tyson Rayles]

According to the description the car was built from 1968 until 2009 so it fits your time period perfectly. Being they are among your newest tankers back then it stands to reason they would have seen regular to heavy duty service Ralph. Enjoy your new tanker fleet!

[Ralph]

Ralph
There's a few questions you need to answer before get too carried away w/ your Gulf tank cars.
Just because both your models & prototype pix say Gulf are they the same car i.e. is the Walthers car a duplicate of the prototype car? What are the built/new dates of the model & prototype (cars from '20s-'30s didn't last into the '60s-'70)s. Do the capacities of the model & prototype match? Were 8052 gal. tank cars used that much in the '60s- '70s?

Good questions. You motivated me to take a close look at the model cars themselves and I observe their capacity is 10,000 gallons and the "new" date is 1950. A little more research under the subject "10,000gallon Gulf tanker" led to this:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.intermountain-railway.com/ho/sr/html/TrainQuestGulfBlackHO.htm">http://www.intermountain-railway.com/ho ... lackHO.htm</a><!-- m -->

I looked up WRNX and found this: "WRNX - Gulf Oil Products Company; Chevron USA, Inc."

So, so far I can confirm that the Gulf lettering scheme on the tanker was prototypical for at least some tankers...can't confirm it was for later 10,000 gallon tankers like the model in the link immediately above...but I might be happy to assume so.

[Ralph]

According to the description the car was built from 1968 until 2009 so it fits your time period perfectly. Being they are among your newest tankers back then it stands to reason they would have seen regular to heavy duty service Ralph. Enjoy your new tanker fleet!

That was my first impression too but the more I look at it the more I think they are saying the original photo was taken in 1968-09 as in the year 1968, 9th month. This is noted as "Date orignal"...which I assume means when the photo was actually taken.

There is also a "Date digital" noted as 2013-08...which I think means August 2013 when some one scanned the original print.

But, the good news is I think we have photographic evidence of a 8052 gallon Gulf tanker in the scheme similar to my cars that appears to be in service. The haircuts and clothing of the kids in the pic suggests a 60's era to me as well.

So, now I guess it would be nice to know if this Gulf scheme was painted on 10,000 gallon tankers...but I'm feeling pretty good about putting my new cars to work in Kings Port.

[Ralph]

A couple of pics of the cars on the layout

[Charlie B]

Ralph, the picture of the model you link to shows a build date of 3/49 if I read it correctly, and a capacity of 100,000 pounds. Now this data may not be correct, but I also notice the babbitt bearings on the trucks which make this car a great one for your era. Many of these cars were still running into the Conrail era.
Here are a couple similar cars that have Conrail reporting marks. One was in 77, and one in 78. With a build date of 49 The cars would have been 20 years old in the PC era. If they were built after 1966 they were required to have roller bearing trucks. Babbitt bearing tucks were no longer acceptable for interchange after 1980        
Charlie

[Ralph]

That's excellent! Thanks Charlie for coming up with an observation I wouldn't have know to make.

Ralph

[nachoman]

Nice find, Ralph. They look great on your layout. I can't comment on whether your tank cars are appropriate, but I can say they look appropriate.

BTW, I've made this comment before, but I find your layout very inspiring. It has a great overall feel without too much "rivet counting", and seeing how you have incorporated everyday items into convincing scenes helps motivate me to get away from meticulous research and just build something that looks convincing.

[Charlie B]

how you have incorporated everyday items into convincing scenes helps motivate me to get away from meticulous research and just build something that looks convincing.

Kevin, that section of your quote is the answer to having fun modeling. I think it is true you can spend too much time researching. Learning comes with building as far as I am concerned. If it makes you happy, then that is good. In this case Ralph liked these cars and would have made them work, it just happens they do, and he got a terrific buy too. I know of some folks that wanted to do something but their research was fruitless so they abandoned the projects. If there is nothing to be found then who is to say if you are right or wrong.
Charlie

[Ralph]

Thanks guys! I certainly see a wide range of ways to enjoy the hobby. I know plenty of modelers get a lot of satisfaction researching the prototype and replicating it as closely as possible. I think that's great and I have a lot of respect for that style. I've, however, often described myself as an "impressionist" when it comes to modeling vs being a "realist". Both styles are valid...just check out paintings at the art gallery to see a similar range of approaches!

As for the Gulf cars, I had a limited window of opportunity at the train show to decide about buying them. Now,if I had a smart phone I could have done some internet searching about them...couldn't pass up the $5.00 price regardless! If necessary I might have considered painting out the Gulf logo if the scheme was fanciful. Personally I like them!

[FCIN]

That's a nice scene you created for your tank car fleet. We got Gulf tank cars just like those on the F&C in Frankfort, KY, as late as early 1970. The railroad received bulk diesel fuel in them about twice a year and until about 1964, there was also Gulf Oil distributor on the line that got them. I don't remember the reporting marks, but the cars sure looked like your models. As an interesting and related note, those Gulf cars we received were shipped from a barge to rail facility on the Ohio River in Louisville. Now long gone!

[Ralph]

Many thanks Ed! I really appreciate hearing from some one who actually saw cars like that in service.

[BR60103]

Ralph:
If you need to make a quick decision (past "I like, I want"), check any dates printed on the cars. Not always reliable, but it's a least a guide and an excuse. If the BLT date is reasonable (up to 30 years before your date) you can also look at any info like REPACK which would give you a date the car was serviced. Of course, the servicing dates could be changed with decals or a sharp brush.

[Mr Fixit]

Hi Guys, just a couple of observations;
Charlie noted the build date of the tank car in Ralph's link as 3/49 and he highlighted the presence of Babbit bearings versus roller bearings, but he overlooked a more obvious detail, rivets.
That tank car was built using rivetted construction techniques as compared to the tank cars in Charlies pictures are of welded construction. Both tank cars look similar but the rivets show you which is the older tank car.
Electric arc welding really took off as a metal working technique during WW11 for such things as ships and tanks as it is a faster, lighter and stronger method of joining steel than rivetting.
However as with any new industrial process it takes time for it to become widely accepted and understood so for a tank car to be built in 3/49 using rivets is plausable, remember a lot of the railcar fleet was worn out from the service demands of WW11 and needed replacement, but I bet the manufacturers were seriously looking at moving to welded construction if they hadnt already started using welding.
The U.S. tankcar fleet entered WW11 with a lot of 1920's cars and only a few cars built during the 30's thanks to the Great Depression, and that fleet had been worn down from the demands of becoming a rolling oil pipeline to replace tankers sunk by U-Boats off the U.S. East and Gulf Coasts in 1942/3 as well as those sunk in the Atlantic. I havent even factored in the oil requirements for the Pacific war. Few tankcars could be built during the war due to steel shortages and so a 3/49 tankcar would have been one built to replace a clapped out '20's or 30's tankcar and so keep oil supplies moving until such time as welded tankcars could be introduced to service.
If the build date had said 3/59 I would have been suspicious as by then welding should have been becoming the construction method of choice. There would possibly still be some railcars built using rivetted methods, but very few if any.
If the build date had said 3/69, then I think someone is pulling our leg. Remember '69 is back when man was getting ready to go to the moon.
Now I believe that for a railcar to be in interchange service in the U.S., the maximum service life is 40 years, although a 10 year extension can be granted if the car is completely rebuilt. Can anyone confirm this?
The main thing is Ralph, you like the tankcars and they look right on your layout plus you got a bargain.
Mark
Strange how this topic combined several of my interests; Railroads, Model Railroads, World War Two, and Welding.