Proto 87 wheelsets

[Rscott417]

Has anyone attempted to install Proto 87 wheelsets on their locomotives? <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.proto87.com/product2226.html">http://www.proto87.com/product2226.html</a><!-- m --> I'm wondering what the difficulty level is and if there's any obstacles or other problems I might run into. I'm thinking of swapping the wheels on 2 GP38-2s, 1 GP40-2, 1 8-40B and maybe an SD-45.

[lajry]

Looks like you have to replace the wheels on the diesel axles. Looks like there's no guarantee if you screw up the replacements. So if you're not a very good machinist don't do it or find a good one.

[doctorwayne]

Another issue will be the thickness of the new wheels: because the Proto wheels will be considerably thinner than the original ones, the sideframes of the trucks will need to be altered so that their back side is closer to the face of the new wheels. I'm guessing that, with press-in sideframes, this will be easier than the same task for freight cars, where most trucks are one-piece plastic castings. This is one of the reasons why I don't use semi-scale metal wheelsets on my freight cars - the shiny tread just draws attention to the over-width trucks.
I'd also guess that converting a steam loco to Proto-whatever standards would be even more difficult, as the cylinder casting would need to be altered in order to place the side rods and valve gear proportionately closer to the drivers.

Wayne

[Genetk44]

Rscott417........ Have you considered finding some of the Proto 87 sites,forums etc and asking your question there? Seems like the guys that actually model Proto 87 would be able to give you definative answers.

[doctorwayne]

Looks like you have to replace the wheels on the diesel axles. Looks like there's no guarantee if you screw up the replacements. So if you're not a very good machinist don't do it or find a good one.

According to the link, you can buy the wheelsets unassembled or already assembled on half-axles suited to Athearn (3/32" dia.) or Kato (1.5mm dia.). Switching out the wheelsets should be a breeze, it's the other issues which may cause problems.

Wayne

[TinGoat]

Once you switch to Proto87 wheels you will have to make adjustments to all of your trackwork as well.

[Rscott417]

I noticed their website mentions pre assembled wheel sets and shows a picture but no where to "add to cart". What modifications to the track would have to be done?

[doctorwayne]

If you select a wheel size and axle type, along with the desired number of wheel-on-stub-axle sets, you'll get an "Add to Cart" option.
I discovered that to send my order to a U.S. address other than California, it would cost $7088.19 to equip my fleet of 104 Athearn diesels with Proto87 wheels.

I'd guess that the main track modifications required for operation would be to turnouts, and specifically to the frogs and guard rail flangeways. Of course, a Proto87 train running on Atlas or even Micro Engineering track might just not cut it. I've read that Central Valley tie strips have better detail (I'm using them on parts of the second level of my layout, but no attempt at Proto87 standards there - they were simply cheaper than flex track).
Anybody can cherry-pick the degree to which they wish to embrace Proto standards, but wheels will likely force you to also upgrade your track to similar standards - otherwise, operations will probably prove frustrating. Beyond that, how far are you willing to go with rolling stock and locomotive detailing, structure upgrading, and scenery, etc., etc.?

Were I just starting out in model railroading but somehow equipped with all I've learned about it in more than 55 years of hands-on experience, I might opt for a full-bore Proto87 experience, but it wouldn't include a locomotive roster of more than two dozen locomotives or over 500 pieces of rolling stock, nor would it involve several hundred feet of track and an ambitious operating plan.
I can see one or two locos, maybe 3 dozen freight cars and a few other interesting pieces of rolling stock, enough structures to support some kind of operation, and all of it set on a layout with burn-your-retinas scenery. Sounds like a lifetime project to me, and I don't have that kind of time left.

Wayne

[TinGoat]

Doctor Wayne is right. The trackwork requires narrower flangeways through crossings and turnouts.

Not difficult to do.

You will need a Proto 87 track gauge <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.proto87.com/product1509.html">http://www.proto87.com/product1509.html</a><!-- m -->

Then you could use shims to tighten the flangeways.

Here's a little blurb from the webpage.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.proto87.com/what-is-proto87.html">http://www.proto87.com/what-is-proto87.html</a><!-- m -->

[Rscott417]

So as far as the track work needing to be done (mostly turnouts) it is basically to make the track appear more prototypical not so much for operations.

[doctorwayne]

So as far as the track work needing to be done (mostly turnouts) it is basically to make the track appear more prototypical not so much for operations.

I dunno. A friend who uses semi-scale wheelsets reports problems with the narrower wheels dropping at frog flangeways, especially on long turnouts, and then taking the path not chosen, resulting in derailments. I'd think that even narrower wheelsets would be more problematic.
Another aspect to consider is your reason for wanting true-to-scale wheelsets. Without modified or Proto87 specific sideframes, the wheels will not look especially prototypical with the large gaps between sideframe and wheelface, and may detract from the more prototypical appearance you sought with their use. And if you're not going to make the track appear more prototypical, will the outlay for the wheels be justifiable? This is one of those "slippery slope" issues: improve one aspect of the layout, and make all the rest of it look less realistic in comparison. I'm not saying that you shouldn't strive for more realism, but be careful that you continue to upgrade all of the lesser things, too, in order to maintain a balance in the degree of scale fidelity.
I'm guilty of this, too: I can make a fairly faithful replica of a chosen prototype, in this case an Accurail reefer detailed to match a Santa Fe prototype:



...but a photo showing the end detail blows it when the overly-wide wheels and oversize coupler is more prominently shown:



That's one reason why my wheels are mostly plastic - no shiny surface to draw the eye even more. Car ends aren't seen as often as the sides on most layouts, so it's not usually too noticeable, but even if you paint the wheel faces (front and rear, and the axles) of the scale wheels, that gap between the wheel and sideframe will be noticeable, even from the side. If you want to use Proto87 wheelsets, by all means do so, but be aware that alone, it may not give the results which you expect.

Wayne

[GVL]

I use code 88 wheels and found that even these (albeit coarser than Proto87) drop in the frog of Peco #8 turnouts.
The issue was solved by exchanging the standard frog by one from Details West. The operation also improved the looks a little.



Gino

[Rscott417]

Thanks for the replies and insight, I might be better off leaving them alone.