The Modesto & Empire Traction Company Layout Trackplan

[Russ Bellinis]

Josh, when Andrew speaks of the 8", 10" or 12" spacing between modules, he is talking about bolting the modules together with the scenery sides facing each other for transport. Those of us in modular clubs where our modules are set up only at shows have found that module scenery gets damaged if the module is not "boxed" for protection in transit. Also, if you don't install some sort of protection for the rails at each end of the module, you will need to have some sort of set back from the ends with joiner tracks. If you run your rails right to the end of the modules, the rails will tend to snag on things and be damaged. This brings up the point that even if you don't have switches and complicated track work at the module ends, if you have a lot of tracks coming to the end of a module, you will need a lot of joiner tracks that will take a lot of time to install every time you want to operate the module. Our club used to have a set of yard modules that made up 20 feet on one side of any set up. The yard was made up of 30" x 4 foot modules with 8-10 tracks per module. That meant that we needed to install 40 joiner tracks at every set up! The yard tied up 2 people an hour to an hour and a half at every set up! We now have a new yard the has rails going right to the end of the modules with aluminum or wood protector plates installed at each end for transit.

I think you are also still living at your parent's home. I would suggest building a couple or three modules that you can enjoy, and leave the construction of the yard and other modules for when you leave home and move into your own place. I know the temptation is to want everything now, but it just won't work as long as you share your parent's home.

A couple of years ago before he moved to Washington, Galen brought a 2 x 4 "time saver" module to one of our club meetings. He had a Bachmann 44 toner and 4 or 5 40 foot cars with a caboose and a couple of us played with it for a half hour or so after the meeting. It was a lot of fun to switch and it was surprising how long it took to switch out a train on it. The scenery was outstanding. It was not prototypical. It would not accommodate even a Gp9, and sw or a 70 toner was probably as big a locomotive as would fit on that diorama, but Galen is still finding space for it and I'm sure he enjoys playing with it when he feels like operating a train while planning his new layout.

[ocalicreek]

Russ has a good memory! ( But not that good...it was 14" wide by 5' long ) Also, it could maybe possibly use a GP-9, but not very easily. The run-around section will hold a small switcher OR a 40' car comfortably, but not both. It will take a tiny switcher (I use an MDC 'Critter' now) and a short car, like a 2-bay hopper or 30' flat and knowing this is certainly part of the fun of the work.

Are there a couple or three sections of the planned mega-layout that you can build now to test out your skills and ideas? I'm not a big fan of David Barrow's domino sections for many reasons, but that's just me. However, they are a great proving ground for switching like you are proposing and I believe his construction technique (and the benefit of his mistakes, i.e., learning) is well outlined in the hobby press.

Galen

[Trucklover]

If you are going to permanently attach the buildings, you cannot store them on racks 1" to 2" apart. So what I suggest is that you pair the modules, and bolt them face-to-face (i.e. top to top) using "carry plates" to provide the required gap to avoid damage. See <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.railwaybob.com/Modules/ModConstr/Carryplates01.htm">http://www.railwaybob.com/Modules/ModCo ... ates01.htm</a><!-- m --> for a picture.

I would only be permanently attaching the buildings on the layout part of the plan, all the modules would have removable buildings and separate storage for them, thus allowing me to stack them closer together and saving room to allow more modules stacked per storage unit. Thanks for the link, ill have to save this in my bookmarks to re-read on it later

I would also suggest that a 2x8 foot module is not really manageable on your own. Even if you can construct it light enough to lift, the size of it will be awkward, especially in a basement or through doors where space may be limited. Split this size into two 2x4 footers.

Looking at your plant though, you may be able to do some narrower modules too, like 18"x4, while expanding some others (like the yard) to maybe 30" x 4 or 6.

I agree with you, just because i have a couple modules that are this large doesnt mean i plan on making any of the M&ET modules this large. Like i said, im going to try and stick with a maximum of 2'x6' for each module... This is a manageable size for me and i can comfortably move them around. The yard and all the other modules that are larger then this in the plan i am going to make part of the layout section of the plan. If i can do this, i could eliminate the need for larger modules and stick to 2x'6 for the modules.

There are a few modules that are 18" x 6' as well. I would like to do a few of these, and if i do them, they will mainly be the ones on the left side of the plan...

I also have the perfect spot for the helix to come in and connect lower and upper decks. Its on the far right of the plan on the track that leads to the lower modules on the right side of the plan. Instead of these tracks going down to the modules like in the plan, they will go into the helix and drop down to the lower levels... Im still working on the plan, havnt had hardly any time to work on it, so pics of the revised double deck plan to come soon

[Trucklover]

Also, if you don't install some sort of protection for the rails at each end of the module, you will need to have some sort of set back from the ends with joiner tracks. If you run your rails right to the end of the modules, the rails will tend to snag on things and be damaged. This brings up the point that even if you don't have switches and complicated track work at the module ends, if you have a lot of tracks coming to the end of a module, you will need a lot of joiner tracks that will take a lot of time to install every time you want to operate the module. Our club used to have a set of yard modules that made up 20 feet on one side of any set up. The yard was made up of 30" x 4 foot modules with 8-10 tracks per module. That meant that we needed to install 40 joiner tracks at every set up! The yard tied up 2 people an hour to an hour and a half at every set up! We now have a new yard the has rails going right to the end of the modules with aluminum or wood protector plates installed at each end for transit.

Thanks for the info Russ. Tracks on the edges of the modules has been one of the many things ive been thinking about. I would like to hear and know more about the protector strips that you guys put on the ends of the modules. This would be somthing i would be very much interested in doing. Do you have any pics or somewhere where i can read more about how to make them and such? Most of the modules ill be doing will have minimal track joints on the edges, at least im going to try and do this with the revisions LOL. Problem is, i wanna keep this as close to PROTO as i can, and this is going to mean in some cases that track joints on ends are going to be needed and wont be able to be modified lol. I wont have to worry about the yard, i plan on having the entire yard as part of the layout section of the plan....

I think you are also still living at your parent's home. I would suggest building a couple or three modules that you can enjoy, and leave the construction of the yard and other modules for when you leave home and move into your own place. I know the temptation is to want everything now, but it just won't work as long as you share your parent's home.

Thanks for the advise, your right, it is hard and very tempting to just dive right into this and go all out, but your right, it would be best to wait until i get a place of my own with the room for this beast of a layout LOL. Im not even sure if i should build any of the modules right now, it might be overwhelming and i might start other modules while building the first ones LOL. I already have a few modules hanging on my walls that still need work, maybe i should work on them again for the time being and keep the M&ET plans open for a bit. I would like to be able to just work on this continuously rather then working on a couple modules and then having to stop for a while till i get a place big enough to house this layout lol. We'll have to see...

[Trucklover]

Russ has a good memory! ( But not that good...it was 14" wide by 5' long ) Also, it could maybe possibly use a GP-9, but not very easily. The run-around section will hold a small switcher OR a 40' car comfortably, but not both. It will take a tiny switcher (I use an MDC 'Critter' now) and a short car, like a 2-bay hopper or 30' flat and knowing this is certainly part of the fun of the work.

That sounds like a pretty neat little layout from what you and Russ explained, but i dont know if i could have as much fun with it as you did. I dont know why, but i dont do well with small operations and small layouts with limited options and rolling stock length. I like to have lots of space and switching opportunities, while at the same time providing a challenge trying to switch several industries at the same time LOL

Are there a couple or three sections of the planned mega-layout that you can build now to test out your skills and ideas? I'm not a big fan of David Barrow's domino sections for many reasons, but that's just me. However, they are a great proving ground for switching like you are proposing and I believe his construction technique (and the benefit of his mistakes, i.e., learning) is well outlined in the hobby press.

This has come up a few times. Ill have to see what area i could start on first after i do the revisions and make it a double deck layout. I do have a spot in mind, but i also would like to do start with a couple other locations on the plan, i guess it would all come down to what industries i would wanna scratch build the most Im trying to decide between the Versa Cold Logistics Modules or the Georgia Pacific Modules with the small yard... lol I have alot of interest in both of those sections.

[Trucklover]

Here is an update on the plan. I finally got a chance to work on some revisions this evening lol

These 2 pics show the helix and the yard. The Black tracks on the right side of the plan are the tracks that are on the upper level with the yard. The white tracks are the helix traveling down to the lower level. 28" radius on the outside track and 25" radius on the inside track. The Blue tracks are the tracks that come off the helix at the bottom at the lower level. Ill have to do another plan to continue the blue tracks on the lower level. Yellow Tracks are the BNSF/M&ET Interchange Yard, and the Red Tracks are the BNSF Mainline.

The upper level with the yard is now part of a layout section, and no modules will be part of this yard. Now i realize that there is virtually no room coming off the BNSF mainline tracks on either side of the plan, but this is of no concern to me. Basically the BNSF mainline will just be for show, and simulate the real mainline running by the yard. And remember, all track spacing is 2" track centers, and on the helix, there is roughly 3" between tracks. All switches are #8's or #9's and minimum radius in the yard is 22"

Ive also lessened the length of the plan from 40' long to 25' long. This means now i will need a room thats 25' long to house this layout, thats alot better then 40' although 25' is still very long. Im not sure i could shorten the plan any further though.... lol

Thats it for now, more revising's to come soon

[Russ Bellinis]

Josh, I don't have any pics of the "protector plates" I mentioned, but all they are is a section of aluminum angle from Home Depot or Lowes. Our typical module is 2 feet wide, so the angle would be 2 feet long, and using 2 inch or 3 inch flanges. The flange is set down on top of the rails at the end of the module and then fastened to the ends with wood screws. Once installed, the flanges will take a beating and the track underneath is protected from damage.

[Trucklover]

Josh, I don't have any pics of the "protector plates" I mentioned, but all they are is a section of aluminum angle from Home Depot or Lowes. Our typical module is 2 feet wide, so the angle would be 2 feet long, and using 2 inch or 3 inch flanges. The flange is set down on top of the rails at the end of the module and then fastened to the ends with wood screws. Once installed, the flanges will take a beating and the track underneath is protected from damage.

That sounds like a really easy and good way to protect the rails Russ. Thanks for the additional info, logged into my notes and this will have to be a must for the modules ends

[Trucklover]

Did some more work on the plan this evening. I shrunk the plan quite a bit with this latest re-vision as well. Now the plan will only occupy a room that is 25'x15', which is more realistic then a 40x30' room LOL.

Now to explain this attachment....

Basically im going to limit the number of modules on this layout, and try and keep them to a minimum. The pic below only contains 5 modules, the rest is layout. The layout will basically be a large U-shape around the room, with modules coming out in different areas. When building the layout, ill make it so that each island can be hooked up and switched.... So all the islands will not be connected and hooked up at the same time. For example, the Codoni Ave. island modules would be set up, while Doherty Ave Island modules would be in storage and not set up at the same time as the Condoni Modules.

We'll start at the top left of the pic. This is where the 3 tracks come out of the left end of the Interchange Yard. These tracks merge into one track, and parallel Yosemite Blvd. When the tracks come to Codoni Ave. a spur comes off and goes to the right, where the first 2 modules will be located, Codoni Ave. A total of 3 modules (each 6' long, ONLY 2 SHOWN SO FAR). Below Codoni Ave, South Riverside Dr. and then Lapham Ave. parallels Yosemite Blvd while the tracks run down the center of both roads. Just below South Riverside Dr. another island of modules. These are the Doherty Ave. Modules. Just below this, the lower left corner of the layout, Yosemite Blvd and Lapham Ave take a right turn (in the real thing they keep going down straight and do not turn....) and then cross Mitchel Road. Tracks still say in the middle of both Yosemite Blvd and Lapham Ave. A little down the line, a spur comes off. This is currently where im at with the plan right now.

Im not sure how to explain where the layout stops and where island modules start better then i did above, but basically modules will be able to be hooked up to certain spots for switching, when im done switch them, they will be taken down and the next island of modules would be hooked up. It will make alot more sense i think once everything is in place....

[Trucklover]

Okay this should make a little more sense as of what im trying to do with this plan.

Here are 2 more pics, this time showing 2 other islands of modules. Again there are 4 Total islands of modules. 1 Island of modules would be set up at a time, switched, then put away and a new island would be brought out.... Here are Islands 3 and 4. These would be tall enough that you could duck under them to get to get to all sides of them.... As you can see, Islands 1 and 2 have been removed from the plan (see my last post) and Islands 3 and 4 have been put in place. Ill post another couple shots showing the different set-ups i could do by adding the islands to the layout.

[Russ Bellinis]

Josh, I think that if you build it, you will find that it is just too much trouble to set up and take down modules. You will probably just put up favorites and leave the rest in storage. When our modular club sets up a show, it takes 10-20 people 2 hours or more to set it up, trouble shoot, level the layout, and get everything running. Ho is very unforgiving of any irregularities in track work including dips, bumps, jogs, or any misalignment. You would be a lot better off to reduce what you model by modeling only a small part of the line instead of trying to cover the entire railroad.

As an example, I want to model the Los Angeles Junction Rwy on a 7 foot by 9 foot L shaped layout. I am not going to try to model the entire railroad. Even though it only occupies a space of 10 miles by 10 miles or so, it would be too much to try to include it all. I'm going to model the "C" yard and the Great Western Malting Company on the 7 foot leg, and District Ave in Vernon on the 9 foot leg. I will probably free lance something in the corner, perhaps pick an industry I like from Commerce or Vernon and move it into the corner.

If you made your layout to consist of the Codoni Ave district on one leg with the Doherty Ave district on the other leg and the back side just connecting the two or containing another switching district, forming a "U" shaped layout that would fit your 25' x 15' room easily and allow the layout to remain ready to operate whenever the mood strikes you, you would enjoy it a lot more. Frankly my least favorite part of the hobby is setting up and tearing down a layout.

[Trucklover]

Okay here are a couple pics showing the different arrangements i could do with the island modules when setting them up and switching them.

[Trucklover]

And the last one:

[shortliner]

Josh - a suggestion - can you make "generic" Island modules that can be attached at various points around the layout. perhaps by adding a small, bolt on, "joining piece" at one or the other end? Building signs held on with magnets or velcro, so that they can be swapped when the island is moved to represent another part of town. Working on the basis that tin-shed wharehouses look much the same, it should be possible (perhaps with a couple of matching buiolding baseplates), to change out a couple of similar shaped(but differently coloured) warehouse/factories from one island into another neighbourhood, giving a completely different look and feel ( one might be cement block, another ali-clad, another brick etc. It would reduce the number of modules needed to be built and stored, and if the module is also reversible, give you different switching problems. Imagine for example that the Spenker Ave island in the last pic, had its top board rotated and then the island added to another part of the layout, perhaps part of the Codoni section. Just an idea!

[Trucklover]

Josh, I think that if you build it, you will find that it is just too much trouble to set up and take down modules. You will probably just put up favorites and leave the rest in storage. When our modular club sets up a show, it takes 10-20 people 2 hours or more to set it up, trouble shoot, level the layout, and get everything running. Ho is very unforgiving of any irregularities in track work including dips, bumps, jogs, or any misalignment. You would be a lot better off to reduce what you model by modeling only a small part of the line instead of trying to cover the entire railroad.

Very true. I read your reply after i had posted my last pic in this thread, this was before i started working on the bottom level. I completely agree with you, and thats why i chose to do no more modules, and keep them down to the 9 modules i had already drew plans for which would all be located on the top level divided up in 4 separate islands. I think 9 modules would be a manageable amount for just myself setting them up 2 or 3 at a time where they would be locked into on the layout? I understand there would be alot of work involved in setting up and troubleshooting, but i think if i only built 9 of the modules, that this would be okay and i could live with it lol

If you made your layout to consist of the Codoni Ave district on one leg with the Doherty Ave district on the other leg and the back side just connecting the two or containing another switching district, forming a "U" shaped layout that would fit your 25' x 15' room easily and allow the layout to remain ready to operate whenever the mood strikes you, you would enjoy it a lot more. Frankly my least favorite part of the hobby is setting up and tearing down a layout.

Ive already compressed all my favorite sections LOL I would model the entire Shortline, but that would just take up so much space i would need a warehouse LOL. Plus i didnt even model the UP/M%ET Interchange Yard.... Which i really wanted to but had to force myself not to lol. Ill post the bottom level and the details below