In the South

[faraway]

Russ, thank you for looking up the correct Microscale set for lettering. The West Coast RR Forum pointed me to a custom decal maker ( http://home.mindspring.com/~elstrains/index.html ). I have sent an email and wait for some response.

[faraway]

The new north yard is operation since more than a week and some nasty design flaws popped up.
- The hidden staging yard in the pier warehouse to hold two trains (max. 5 cars each) is unsatisfactory. Fiddle without any sight and only one track is not a useful staging yard
- The centered warehouse with large entries on both sides for the staging track was not well positioned and the black holes could not be hidden well
- The remaining track were not sufficient to form a yard with minimum capabilities to create trains

I solved that problem by moving one turnout and some trackage.
The staging track moved by 1" to the front and the warehouse lost 1" in depth. It fits now behind the last track left shifted. A new stub track completes the pier warehouse service tracks on the right.
In front of that are three tracks (2 both side connected one a long stub track) forming a (very) small yard to hold unused cars, create trains and receive cars coming back from the various industries.





I did not cut the roof of the warehouse by 1" as I did with the base structure. It has now a long overhang but looks consistent. The prototype has a second lower mounted roof to protect loading and unloading. The main roof has only a small overhang. I will think about that during the next days.

The choice of locomotives used emerged again. The MP20C-3 PHL engines and the Genset are great models and match the prototype. But they are to long, to huge and to massive. They dominate a track and look awful in my tight curves. If I go back into the 90'th SW1500 of UP and SP have been on the scene and PHL did run SW1200. I am "playing around" with some UP SW1500 to test the visual impression. They are a much better choice for my small layout. A PHL Sw1200 might be base on a P2K Conrail SW1200. LAJ is still stuck with the CF-7 that does even with new motors not match Atlas and modern Athearn drives.

What kind of engines do you run on a small layout after 2000? The current "switchers" (GP60M, SD40...) are full blown road engines some years ago. The new Genset is not really helpful due to their excessive length from this point of view... It is somewhat frustrating.

[Gary S]

One thing for certain, Reinhard - you are learning a great deal from all this and so am I! It is definitely fun and enlightening following along with you on your journey. Most of the questions you ask are above my limited knowledge, so sorry I can't be of more help.

[Russ Bellinis]

Pacific Harbor Line had a bunch of sw7's I think. They were left over from the previous ownership when it was named the Harbor Belt Line. They were a light blue color (similar to a faded Conrail blue or the Great Northern Big Sky Blue) If I remember correctly they were left blue, but the Harbor Belt Line was patched out and PHL put on the side of the hood, but I may be mistaken, they may have left it with the Harbor Belt Line lettering. I just don't remember now. They also may have had Harbor Belt Line on the side of the hood with PHL in block letters below the cab windows. If I remember correctly, the Harbor Belt Line had their lettering in standard block letters.

[faraway]

Russ, thank you for reminding me about the even older SW7.I had an eye on the SW1200 only. However, your "solution" to the problem of huge modern switchers on modern tiny layouts is also to search for an exception where old small switchers had been on service longer than usual.
Another bypass I like to use, not very prototype like in the LA area, are MP15DC from GATX etc (good running Atlas models available). You can always state the right engine is temporary out of service and a leasing engine has been brought in temporary. But is looks like leasing engines spotted in the LA area are GP38 and up.

But may be the best solution is not to follow the prototype and declare a small modern layout fictional and run engines that "might be" still running. And there are still lots of MP... etc. on the rails. If I would make no reference to the LA area, the PHL etc. for my new north yard but stay wit my heading of this thread "in the south" it would be much easier. Some where in the south switching high cube box cars with MP... and SW... makes much sense. The engines may be in the colors of UP and SP too. Because that are colors that fit "somewhere in the south".
I did try the first time to get closer to the prototype. But I am not so sure if that is really a good idea with so constrained space and still a need for a useful operation. May be it is better to do intentional a pure fictional layout but use google, streetview to get some aspects of the typical flair and feeling of a certain area and time. An other good reason for digging into the details of a prototype railroad is to learn how they operate. I did learn a lot from the "jobs" and "transfers" run at the LAJ. But again, it be a not so good idea to try to mimic that on a small layout but instead use it as some kind of background knowledge to be used when inventing our own fictional operation.

[Justinmiller171]

I found a video of the Pacific Harbor Line, Towards the end of the video there are some shots of an SW-7 like the ones that Russ Mentioned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OFo--6uwPc

[faraway]

I found a video of the Pacific Harbor Line, Towards the end of the video there are some shots of an SW-7 like the ones that Russ Mentioned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OFo--6uwPc

I think those are the SW1200 ( http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/picture...720031.JPG ). They had a bunch of them. They look nice and Conrail blue would be a good match (close enough) but the lettering.... I have a request with a custom decal maker pending.

[Russ Bellinis]

I think those are the SW1200 ( http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/picture...720031.JPG ). They had a bunch of them. They look nice and Conrail blue would be a good match (close enough) but the lettering.... I have a request with a custom decal maker pending.

They may be Sw1200's. I thought I saw Sw7 stenciled on the locomotive somewhere when I last saw one in operation, but I haven't been down there since I worked in the area last in 2005. I retired in 2006. I'm not very familiar with the various nuances of spotting features on EMD Sw models. The only ones I recognize easily are Mp15ac, and the Rebuilds made by U.P. using the Gp 9 hood on the front end of an Sw. I model Santa Fe, and they pretty much much phased out switchers when they rebuilt the F units into Cf7's and at about the same time rebuilt Gp7's and 9's into chop noses with the Topeka cabs. Since then they have continued to detune or downgrade older road power units for industrial switching service. The latest example being the use of Gp60m's in industrial service and having used standard cabs installed on the Gp60b's for use in local switching. BNSF may have some switchers left over from BN, but the last "Santa Fe" unit resembling an Sw was the "Beep" used at the Argentine Engine Facility to move dead engines around that were being rebuilt. I think the "Beep" was an old Baldwin switcher with part of a Gp7 or 9 long hood and EMD prime mover.

[faraway]

... I model Santa Fe, and they pretty much much phased out switchers...

Santa Fe is one of the worse prototype to be used if you have limited space and want to have a modern times layout. I really was shocked and assumed it is a joke when they told me in the west coast form GP60M are used for witching. I even did not use that monsters for mainline service on my small layout. All the smaller BNSF switchers available on the market have their origin at BN and did never regular run in the south.
But I like Santa Fe as you do very much. The only solution for me is to defer Santa Fe to one of my next layout of the 1950'th. I got 6 P2K GP7 and yesterday two Atlas SW2 (have been an occasion of the old ones from ROCO) arrived in beautiful zebra look. That will be the engine base for another layout, save stored in the cabinet (and ones a month used for a test drive).

[Russ Bellinis]

Santa Fe still uses some of the Chopped nose Gp7s & 9s for local switching, although some of them have been sold off. They also use Gp20s. 30s, 35s, 38-2s and 39-2s and I think 40xs for switching. The smaller 4 axle units aren't too bad, but if a Cf7 is too big to look realistic on tight curves, those others would be just as bad. Of course, U.P. is worse. The shop where I worked before I retired was on the U.P. mainline in City of Industry. As the name implies, there is a lot of industry and warehousing in City of Industry, and the U.P. main was triple tracked in the area to allow run arounds for local switching without fouling the main. Typical switching power was Sd75s, Dash8-40c, etc. There was one leased Gp40-2, but that was the only 4 axle power I ever saw switching locals there. Otherwise the smallest power I saw them use was exSp Sd40-2ts. In fact the U.P. yard in City of Industry was worked exclusively by Sd40-2ts!

[faraway]

Russ, my comment about AT&SF was a little bit of irony. They have been the first to stop buying new switcher and reused low end road engines. Later on all the other RR followed on that way.
I think the area of dedicated switchers (with road capabilities) had an end in 1984 when the MP15AC stopped. After that time no new switchers have been developed instead rebuilds toke over the complete market.
The Geeps with chopped nose are beautiful. The problem is each RR did it their way and they are all somewhat different. I assume due to that difference no quality model would reach the minimum numbers to be produced and we got nothing there. I would like to have the skill to do that modification myself. There are lots of examples in the web but that is out of my possibilities.

The only model in that area in the CF-7. It looks so good but the drive... I am still not satisfied. And each time I run an Atlas engine the CF-7 is an disappointment afterwards.

btw. I uninstalled some sound decoders from unused Athearn Genesis NYC F7 yesterday (put them in UP SW1500). That units have a fine drive and should have the correct truck distance for CF-7. I will try if I can transplant the trucks with motor etc. into the CF-7. I hope Athearn mounts the trucks in Genesis and RTR engines the same way.

[Russ Bellinis]

Reinhard, you might find these interesting. I think they could be bashed onto an Atlas Gp7 or 9, but they are a bit pricey for a cab only.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.santafeprototypes.com">http://www.santafeprototypes.com</a><!-- m -->

[faraway]

Reinhard, you might find these interesting. I think they could be bashed onto an Atlas Gp7 or 9, but they are a bit pricey for a cab only.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.santafeprototypes.com">http://www.santafeprototypes.com</a><!-- m -->

Russ, I do not have the skill to do kit bashing at the shell and end up with an acceptable result. May be I get the cutting and gluing done but I have no chance to do a paint finish I will accept. I tried it several times about some years ago with NYC engines "black only", IHB "yellow only" and some two color designs (Chicago Beltway) but it is far away from professional finish. It tends to end up with a thick layer of paint leveling all details. The paint loves it to have a great party under the masking tape. The airbrush is not my friend....

But you might have read my report about the very successful motor exchange between Genesis C7 and RTR CF-7. I am very happy to have two CF-7 running as smooth as I like it! Gary added the option to use P2K Geep trucks at the CF-7. That worked also great.

So I got GP30u, GP35u and CF-7 for LAJ up and running. That is not to bad.

ps. The CF-7 have still an ATSF shell. LAJ CF-7 are on order but my LHS does not expect them earlier than 1/11. Athearn slipped from 10/10 to 1/11. May be March when they pop up in Germany. I think about canceling the order and get them from Trainworld now.

[faraway]

The most part of the north yard will be street running. I did lay thin blue foam between the tracks as a filler and started to put filler between the blue foam and the rails. the result is very disappointing. The filler likes it to climb over the rail and glue like hell on the inside.

It is my fault to do it on the layout hidden behind the tables now. I should have done it during summer when I did not work and could have removed the tables for some days. That would permit to sit in front of the north yard and do what needs to be done.

[faraway]

The rear track is the only one that is put in filler for about 2". Looks not that bad after painting.


All other tracks will get gravel between the rail and the gray painted foam. The right most track will get normal ballast.
I am not happy with the result but the north yard is behind tables and the 3' rule is enforced... It is an awful pain to work at that area. My back is really upset with me. I think filling gravel in the slots and flood them with glue/water mix should be more easy to do.

Update next day:
Filling the gap with gravel was not as easy as it sounds. I had to lean over the table for a long period of time and the gravel did not form an even surface easy. That method is also not recommended.
I did come back to the original method with filler. But I tried another way to apply it. I made a filler with lots of water and some color. It is some gray slurry I put in an injection (with out needle) and applied it that way in the gap between rail and foam. The consistency of the slurry is important. It escapes under the ties if there is too much water and it does not flow at all and clog the injection if to little water is added. Two rounds have been applied and it needs some hours rest to settle before cleaning and testing.

That's it in the evening and after some cleaning and another layer of paint. I stand usual some what more back from the layout and with my poor eyesight does it look more even gray.
I will stop here and do street running at the next layout at a location where I can sit comfortable in front of the work area.