2-8-2 - THE BUILD

[nachoman]

I use epoxy and mounting pins to join to zamak. CA is one of those "glues of last resort" for me. I've never even tried soldering it - you would never be able to get enough heat into the boiler with a soldering iron for any solder to stick.

[P5se Camelback]

Like I said ... it's been a couple of lifetimes since I played with Zamac castings; my current EOY Challenge being the first time I even touched Zamac in decades! hock:

Thanks for reinforcing my foggy memory! I had intended on using some sort of epoxy to add detail to my Scale Test Car. I only use alpha cyanoacrilate when there is no other appropriate alternative, as with any adhesive compound. There is no such thing as "one 'glue' for all occasions!"

So ... thanks, Kevin!

[doctorwayne]

... For mounting brass detail parts to an existing boiler shell, regardless of whether it's brass, Zamac, or plastic, make use of the mounting pins which are part of most brass detailing parts. If the part doesn't have a mounting pin, consider adding one by drilling the rear of the part to accept a short length of brass wire of a suitable diameter - use solder or ca to secure it in the part (solder is a must if you intend to solder the part to the boiler). A mounting pin will strengthen the joint considerably, and is especially important if you're using ca or epoxy to affix the parts.

O.K., I now need some clarification! I know I've been away from the hobby for a couple decades, and I haven't played with Zamac castings (especially for locomotives) since the ice age before that, my readings of the paragraphs above raise questions in this onld memory-challenged head. I have soldered (or re-soldered) details onto a brass boiler and used ACC (CA) to afix brass details to a plastic models, but if memory serves (and often it doesn't) you must use acc (CA) or epoxy to attach such details to a Zamac casting, such as a locomotive boiler. I don't think you can solder to Zamac.

Do I remember correctly? Soldering irons and Zamac castings don't play well together, correct?

If it's clarification you want, it's clarification you'll get.


I guessing that it's the statement in enlarged type that's causing the confusion. The key word is "if" - Gluing the pin in place on the part, then attempting to solder it to a brass boiler would likely result in failure of the glue. Zamac, as far as I'm aware, cannot be soldered. However, by soldering the pin to the detail part, then inserting the pin into and though the Zamac or plastic boiler shell, the pin can then be bent-over in addition to being glued or epoxied, yielding a much more permanent joint.

Wayne

[P5se Camelback]

Thanks, doctorwayne, that clears things up beautifully. It was the enlarged type that gave me pause.

Happily, my memory served me well this time, as I didn't think that a soldering iron and a Zamac casting would be a very good match! It been quite a while but I thought I recalled using Walthers "Goo" back in the late sixties, the last time I messed with adding detail to a Zamac boiler!

Thanks again for reinforcing my beliefs ... I do appreciate it!

[Steamtrains]

Parts came in yesterday's mail.... So it was back to the salt mines for me....

Doc Wayne...Thanks for all that info...!!! It clears a lot of things up, but I still have a couple of questions....
The detail kit I got has a couple of injectors and piping going to the turret shroud (one on either side of the boiler). Are these different from the HW injectors to the boiler..?? So I would still need the check valve that's on the boiler right now..?? That #4807 is a great looking loco. I see you've also put brakes on the drivers. Where did you get them..?? I hope mine comes out half as good as that one....

Lutz...Those are some great instruction sheets..!! Mine look a lot like that 1987 edition, but they've also got some sheets that look like the mid-60's... The motor you see on my loco is one of my "upgrades". The kit itself had one of those horrible open frame motors that buzz....

Keep those cards and letters comin'...Any info or hints you all can provide will be most appreciated...

[doctorwayne]

I think that the term "injector" is somewhat confusing, as it implies that it "injects" water directly into the boiler. Actually, an injector is a pump of sorts, with no moving parts, where steam is mixed with the water. This moves it, under pressure, from the injector to the boiler, via the check valve. The check valve's purpose is to allow the water to enter the boiler, but prevent the water and/or steam that's already in the boiler from escaping.
Check valve placement can vary, with some locos using a dual top feed-type, fed from either two injectors or from an injector and a feed water heater. Some locos used a single-feed top-mounted check valve for only the water from the fwh, with a separate, side-mounted check valve (usually on the engineer's side of the boiler) for water from the injector.
Other locos used two side-mounted check valves, usually one on each side of the boiler. One would be fed by an injector, while the other could be supplied by another injector or by a fwh.

This loco has a dual-feed, top-mounted check valve, with water supplied by two "lifting" injectors located inside the cab:


This loco has side-mounted check valves, both supplied by non-lifting injectors located beneath the cab. You can trace the water line from the vertical horn-like gizmo beneath the cab to the check valve. The other pipe, running from the un-shrouded turret, is the steam supply line to operate the injector:


...and this one also has two side-mounted check valves, but both are supplied by lifting injectors mounted on the sides of the boiler, just ahead of the cab. Steam is supplied by a pipe from the turret (inside the cab) and its admission to the injector is via rods operated by the fireman. The longer pipe beneath the cab is the water supply from the tender, while the shorter pipe is an overflow:


If you're not going to install a feedwater heater, you need to use both injectors. If you plan on using a fwh, use the injector only on the engineer's side of the loco.
With either set-up, you'll still need check valves, either two side-mounted single feed ones, or a single-feed top mounted one, along with a side-mounted one, or a dual feed top-mounted one.

Thanks for the kind appraisal of the 4807. The brake shoes were part of the original locomotive, a Bachmann USRA Light Mountain. Precision Scale offers brake shoes and hangers in plastic or brass (plastic creates less hassles with shorts, while brass is easier to affix securely (soldered), but makes it more difficult to maintain clearances for electrical purposes.

Wayne

[Steamtrains]

OK...After getting the rivets, I finished off the left valve gear and installed it. Now I'm all set to test it, and it runs like AN OLD Model-T....Terrible would have been a compliment. Kind of expected it. So I sit down and check it piece by piece, on both sides. I tweak it here, adjust a bit there, run it some more, keep on tweaking, until finally tonight, it runs ALMOST as good as my brass engine. I brought it (the brass) out of mothballs just to see what a metal loco was supposed to run like (open frame motor and all...) and it runs just beautifully. So that was the standard to meet. I kept at it until I got it as good as I could..!

I cobbled together the tender chassis to connect it to the loco and set it on the track to get a "feel" for the loco.




It runs great, BUT....It's such a heavy loco that on the ballasted stretches of track, you can hear it from a mile away at "cruising" speed. At lower speeds it's less noticeable, but still noisier than the rest of my locos. Oh well...That's what I get for messing with 50's technology....Does anybody out there have any ideas on how to minimize this "road noise"..??

In any event, it's good enough to justify the extra work (and expense) of detailing it like I want. So, it's onward to the details....

Will update as work progresses...

[ocalicreek]

Noise may just be the price you pay for being able to pull long trains. The newer Bachmann Spectrum engines, along with other highly detailed plastic engines, don't seem to pull as well as a nicely balanced 'lead sled' die cast engine. That is, not without adding weight or shifting the balance over the drivers, or adding a traction tire. It's hard to make a generalization with so many new entries to the steam market these days.

Glad you've reached this stage of the construction. Keep on keepin on. Maybe someone else can help out with the sound suggestions?

Galen

[nachoman]

Darned DCCers Back in the day, people thought those "athearn growlers" were awesome! Now people want things to be quiet?!! Heavy steam engine with an open frame motor = gonna make noise. A can motor will help, but other than that, you need to just live with the noise.

[Steamtrains]

Kevin...It does have a can motor...On unballasted track it's very quiet, but when it hits ballasted track (over cork RB) you can sure hear it....

[Schraddel]

Gus,
what kind of noise do you mean?

Noise from the gears?
Do you have controlled the correct gear mesh?
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If the gear mesh is too loose it can be very noisy.

Or noise of the rolling wheels on the rails?
This "noise" is the sound of gravity an heavyness as like on the prototype. You can't stop it.
Suggestion: Enjoy the sound of an slowly passing heavy miniature loco as i do so when running my L1.

I hope

[Russ Bellinis]

I suspect that on unballasted track, the track is isolated from the roadbed so noise is not transmitted. Once you add ballast and glue, the glue makes the roadbed, ballast, and track one piece and noise is no longer isolated.

I think I read somewhere that if you mount your cork to your bench work using a thin film of silicone for glue, and allow the silicone to cure completely, then you mount your track to the cork with silicone and allow everything to cure before ballasting, the noise will be reduced considerably. The noise is essentially caused by vibration transmitted from the track to the bench work, and the silicone has enough cushion to isolate the vibration.

[Steamtrains]

I checked the gear mesh like you mentioned, and it's OK. The noise is not coming from the drive train...It's from heavy iron rolling on steel rails...
I checked the weight of the engine as it is right now...1 lb.-6 oz. Now that's heavy...
I'm thinking of isolating the boiler from the frame to reduce a little the "sound box" effect the boiler might have...Or milling out some of the material from inside the boiler to bring the weight down some. I don't need so much weight since my "normal" trains won't be but 6-8 cars at most.
I'll do some tinkering today and see what works best....

[iis612]

Gus,

Here is a thought. IIRC, you are adding dcc/sound? If so, you can lose a bit of the tender floor. If you are going to try to trim some weight from the boiler, be careful as it is not as thick in the walls as it might appear (If it is anything like my bowser kit). You might be able to drill strategically placed holes in the frame to lose a bit of mass as well. Just some thoughts, I could be VERY wrong (I have been told that it happens from time to time.)


Matt

[Steamtrains]

I've been giving sound a thought. DCC for sure. There's plenty of room in the tender for a sound decoder and speaker....
I'll be sure to determine wall thickness before doing any damage....This would be a last resort to cut down on the noise.
Thanks for the heads up.