2-8-2 - THE BUILD

[Steamtrains]

Any takers..??

[e-paw]

well Steamtrains, I use brass rod for most of that type of detailing. You can generally find the stuff made by K&S Engineering at most hobby shops. I like .020 for sand lines and some larger air lines. For grab irons, most air lines, cut levers, and that sort of thing I use .016. as far as most other piping I usually just eyeball it. I used everything from plastic tube to #18 to #24 solid copper wire with the insulation removed. As long as it looks right it's all fair game in my book.

[doctorwayne]

Most pipe used on locomotives is sized by its interior diameter, and you'll find a pipe size conversion chart on the packages of brass and stainless steel wire sold by Detail Associates. For instance, their WR 2507 is .022" brass wire, which in HO scale is appropriate for 1.5" iron pipe (I.D.), which has an O.D. of 1.9"(HO), very close to the .022" diameter of the wire. So, to be reasonably accurate, you need to know the diameter (I.D. or O.D.) of the prototype pipe. For detailing steam locos and rolling stock, I keep a supply of brass wire on hand, ranging from .006" (retainer piping) to .052" for heavy steam or water lines. For larger pipe I use suitably-sized copper wire, plus steel music wire for handrails, stainless steel for brake rigging and various sizes of phosphor bronze wire for soldered applications requiring more durability.
Many of Cal-Scale's steam loco detail parts include a piping diagram, with appropriate pipe sizes noted. Most of those sizes are inside diameters. PSC's detail parts usually have no piping diagram and, in most cases not even a name for the part, only a stock number - if you don't recognise the part, you'll need the catalogue to identify it.

Wayne

[Steamtrains]

Hey guys...That's just what I needed to know..
I take it the bronze phosphor is suitable for soldered applications mostly..?? It hadn't occurred to me that thin copper wire might well be used. I'll have to checkout what RS has in stock for that. I presume steel wire would be the most suitable for handrails..??

It's been a fun learning experience...What I didn't want to do at first was grind/file off the cast-on piping, but after having seen "real" pipe instead of the cast-on, I think I'll have to go ahead and do it....

Stay tuned for more questions...and a progress report some time in the future....

[nachoman]

I prefer brass wire, and use whatever size looks good (comparing to a prototype photo). I used to have MAJOR issues attaching the piping to the die cast boiler. CA will glue it, but without some kind of mechanical connection it easily breaks off after a few months. If you can drill small holes in the boiler casting and fit the ends of the wire into the holes, it will be much stronger. This works with pipes that terminate into the boiler, smokebox, or an appliance, but does not do as well for many sand or air lines that can't be supported at both ends. For pipes that cant be sufficiently supported by the ends, I drill a small hole in the boiler casting at a place where the pipe needs more support. Then I make a tiny little hanger by bending a piece of thin copper magnet wire into a u-shape, straddle the pipe with the magnet wire hanger, insert the end of the hanger into the hole, and glue in place with epoxy or CA. This is similar to wire staples that you may use to attach a wire to the wall of your house, or to the bottom of your layout. I learned the technique from this thread at the old forum:

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Page 3 explains what I am talking about.

[ocalicreek]

Wasn't going to post, and don't want to take us off topic, but I have to after what just happened. I followed the link to the old forum and couldn't see the pictures. No problem, methinks, I'll just log in. Nope. I log in, it says we're logging you in, then when the page reappears, there's that big fat banner with a 'you're seeing this because we don't know who you are' bulletin sandwiched between two Target ads about diapers. Un-freakin-believable. THIS is exactly why I'm glad Big Blue is back and better than ever. No diaper ads. No unrecognized logins.

Whew. Rant over. Anyway, to bring it back on topic again, I'd say you need to get on ebay or Amazon and find a copy of the Steam Locomotive Cyclopedia from Kalmbach. The opening chapters are all about steam locomotive plumbing and appliances and piping diameters, etc. More than you'd ever need to know. Yes, it's a bit pricey, but I have found that the 'why' behind the 'how', about these parts, their placement and connections, has always been missing. Understanding the basics behind steamer functioning can be so very helpful in detail work. Otherwise you're just duplicating what you see without any understanding of what's actually going on...part A goes in slot B, and wire C goes from X to Z, etc.

Galen

[P5se Camelback]

Previously owned copies of the Cyclopedia are out there on EBay ... and maybe not all that pricey!

Back in October I acquired the MODEL RAILROADER CYCLOPEDIA, "STEAM LOCOMOTIVES, VOL. 1" 1960 for $13.10 plus $5.83 shipping. The dust jacket shows a little fading of the color at the binding, but other than that, the book is in like-new condition.

On the other hand, when I decided I was way overdue in learning about diesels (I've been totally ignorant, and had no interest whatssoever in learning) because I had just bought my first one (after 63 years of "nuttin' but steam!") I began lurking in the Ebay shadows looking for the Diesel version of the Cyclopedia. Well,when I found one, it set me back $52.00 and $4.95 shipping. That was pricey ... but the book has been extremely helpful to this old novice to the world of "Bunker Two-fueled" motive power.

Both books are really invaluable, now that I have them. Before having these two volumes on my shelf to refer to when needed, I was just making semi-educated guesses based on what I thought I was seeing in a photograph of a steamer. And before, when it came to diesels, I was admittedly just out'n'out clueless! :oops:

[Steamtrains]

Ha..!! Bet you all thought this thread had come to its end.... !!!NOOOoo..!! It's just that the work is coming along slowly...

Here's where I'm at...

I did the handrails last weekend..Only took me a day and a half to get them right....But I did....

There's a small glitch here...The handrails rub up against the sand dome, so I'll have to put in a little "crook" to clear the dome and the pipes coming out of it...

And last night I spent about three hours grinding off the cast-in reverse mechanism, and placed the brass one I got in yesterday's mail...


Question...Now that I removed the reverser, there's a good bunch of "bare" iron where it used to be. Should I trim that back a little..?? Or leave it in place to lessen the "see-through" syndrome these locos are famous for..??

Next up...the turret and placement of piping that I also got in the mail....Getting there....

BTW...I got a copy of Vol.1 of the MRR Cyclopedia...Just a world of information there...!!

[Russ Bellinis]

By MRR Cyclopedia vol 1 did you mean the Locomotive Cyclopedia Vol 1 Steam from Kalmbach? If so are there pics of your locomotive prototype in there? If not, do you have a pic of the prototype? If so you might check to see if the sheet is behind the reverser or if it is see through and model it accordingly. A lot of steam engines were very "see through" between the top of the drivers and the bottom of the boiler.

[doctorwayne]

The excess material left where the power reverse was removed could be cut away in a profile following what would be the lower part of the boiler, but chances are it will only reveal parts of the model's drive train - the front of the motor or the side of the gearbox. As Russ notes, many real locos had a lot of "daylight" between the boiler and the running gear, an often difficult situation to reproduce with our models.

Wayne

[iis612]

This is a thread that I have been following with great interest. I have a light micado kit from Bowser that I was working on. I really need to get off my tail and get some more work done on it.
I am living vicariously through your pics, which has me riveted. I want to see more.


Matt

[Steamtrains]

Russ & DocW....The see-through "syndrome" refers, of course, to seeing the drive train inside, which does detract from the over-all effect we strive to achieve.
For now, I think I'll leave it as it is....

Time to take the turret block off and prep the boiler for the piping.

Something dawned on me a couple of days back....NO WHISTLE..!! Is it located in the auxiliary dome..?? There's three "widgets" in there. Would it be redundant to place a nice brass whistle on the steam dome..??

[P5se Camelback]

Steamtrains Gus ...

According to the drawings and photos of a Pennsy Class L1s 2-8-2 on page 65 of the Model Railroader Cyclopedia Volume I, The whistle is mounted horizontally on the rear of the steam dome, with the actual mount on the engineer's side and the top of the whistle to the firemans' side, with the actuating lever on the uppermost side. The actuating cord appears to come across the top of the boiler to a point even with the side of the steam dome, go around some sort of vertical post and then back across the top of the Bellpaire firebox and into the cab.

There is a "deflector" attached to the steam dome under the whistle which the curves up behind the whistle. This deflector is evident on the side elevation drawing and in one of the two photos, but it is not visible in the other photograph.

The notes say this locomotive was designed at the same time as the mighty K4s Pacific and that it shared the same boiler. I didn't know that. They were first built in 1914.

The one discrepancy that I noticed is the big fat SINGLE tank out on the "front porch," mounted laterally with a full width step/platform on top of it. The PRR I1s Decapod 2-10-0 had the twin longitudinally mounted tanks (pages 58 & 59.) The photo at the top of page 58 shows the whistle's position horizontally on the rear the rear of the steam dome and the photo at the top of page 59 shows the side view of the upwardly curved deflector. The engineer's side elevation drawing on that page also shows the location and orientation of the whistle.

Wow! I just learned quite a bit about the Pennsy's Mikado and Decapod! That book really is a virtual bonanza of information!

[nachoman]

I'd be tempted to remove the "sheet metal" in front of the reverser and below the air tank. But You may want to temporarily mount it on the chassis before you decide.

[P5se Camelback]

OOPS!!

:oops:

I just now went back and was reviewing the whole thread when I realized (to my horror) that there is no Belpaire firebox ...

... and the locomotive in question is not a Pennsy L1s Mikado!

Never mind ...