Placing Rail Served Industries On Layout Edge

[MountainMan]

Interesting comments. My personal thoughts are that any building/flat construction on the layout edge looks awkward, unless, perhaps, it is some sort of open-sided shed.

To me, the problem seems to arise from the need to place tracks and structures more or less parallel to the front of the layout in order to efficiently use space. If the layout could be rotated up to 45 degrees or so, open viewing of structures and operations would take care of itself, and operations would likely be enhanced.

I'll probably face some similar problems soon, since the factory compound will have a fair amount of switching, so I'll have to give this some more thought.

[MountainMan]

Interesting comments. My personal thoughts are that any building/flat construction on the layout edge looks awkward, unless, perhaps, it is some sort of open-sided shed.

To me, the problem seems to arise from the need to place tracks and structures more or less parallel to the front of the layout in order to efficiently use space. If the layout could be rotated up to 45 degrees or so, open viewing of structures and operations would take care of itself, and operations would likely be enhanced.

I'll probably face some similar problems soon, since the factory compound will have a fair amount of switching, so I'll have to give this some more thought.

[Brakie]

Interesting comments. My personal thoughts are that any building/flat construction on the layout edge looks awkward, unless, perhaps, it is some sort of open-sided shed.

To me, the problem seems to arise from the need to place tracks and structures more or less parallel to the front of the layout in order to efficiently use space. If the layout could be rotated up to 45 degrees or so, open viewing of structures and operations would take care of itself, and operations would likely be enhanced.

I'll probably face some similar problems soon, since the factory compound will have a fair amount of switching, so I'll have to give this some more thought.

MM,IMHO I believe the contemporary switching layout designs will take some time to adjust to especially buildings being place along the front-something that's been frown on for years for the reasons you mention and among others..

I do like the concept simply because the prototype has industries on both sides of the track instead of one side and with the industry facing the front like you see on most layouts.

[FCIN]

MM,IMHO I believe the contemporary switching layout designs will take some time to adjust to especially buildings being place along the front-something that's been frown on for years for the reasons you mention and among others..

I do like the concept simply because the prototype has industries on both sides of the track instead of one side and with the industry facing the front like you see on most layouts.

When I posted this thread, I was very curious about how many folks, if any, had actually done this. Getting some interesting feedback here.

While trying to come up with an industrial switching spur plan, it really bothers me that for the most part, I have to place all rail served structures against the backdrop and only have open type industries toward the front (i.e.; trans-load/team track, or similar facilities). Almost all of the prototype spurs that I've found and that appeal to me, have structures on both sides of the spur. A look that I would like to capture, but know that for the most part, it won't be practical.

I'm considering placing at least one rail served structure at the front edge of the layout, but with a building and track at an angle to the spur, so that I can, in theory, look around the end and see what is spotted there and couple/uncouple relatively easy. Not sure how it will look, but have seen that sort of thing done on other layouts and to me, it looks just fine.

I still like the idea of having a track running inside of a warehouse type structure like the photo I posted and similar to what bdw9535 has shown. But still wondering about how I'd have to handle coupling/uncoupling cars.

[Gary S]

But still wondering about how I'd have to handle coupling/uncoupling cars.

If you left the wires on the kadee couplers, you could put an electromagnet at each of the places you would uncouple cars, and use those to couple/uncouple inside the building. Everywhere else, you could uncouple by hand. By having an e-magnet at each uncoupling location, you wouldn't have to do the moving back anf forth which is required for the delayed action uncoupling.

[shortliner]

Can I offer another suggestion for representing the buildings along the front?
Here is a "Concrete Canyon" trackplan
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://iholmes.com/pages/journal/planning_06.html">http://iholmes.com/pages/journal/planning_06.html</a><!-- m -->
I must confess I thought this would work with the buildings down the left-hand
side(front) being made out of "Smoked perspex" - like the tops of record decks
used to be - or possibly done with ordinary perspex, then covered with a couple
of layers of the glass tinting film used for car windows. That would "indicate"
that the walls of the building were there, but still allow you to see through
them to operate the layout. You could leave the open doorways and windows clear,
to exaggerate the difference. A third layer making the see-through "darker",
would indicate the doors slid back, and therefore "open".
The same system could be used on any layout where there are buildings
"view-blocking" at the front of the layout, allowing visibility for the stock
positioning, but not requiring the operator (at the front) to peer over the top
or around the end. It would also allow for precise positioning of the cars for
uncoupling over a magnet.

[FCIN]

Can I offer another suggestion for representing the buildings along the front?
Here is a "Concrete Canyon" trackplan
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://iholmes.com/pages/journal/planning_06.html">http://iholmes.com/pages/journal/planning_06.html</a><!-- m -->
I must confess I thought this would work with the buildings down the left-hand
side(front) being made out of "Smoked perspex"

This is an interesting concept. I'm still toying with some plans that would have structures on both sides of the track, but just don't know if it would work in the long run.

Being able to look inside the structure and actually see the rolling stock through the wall, is something I'd never thought of doing. Might be worth experimenting with. I think that Plastruc makes Transparent White plastic sheets, that might work for something like this. If the end walls of the structure were brick, concrete or metal and you had a bit of a detailed interior for these structures and detail the transparent wall with I or H beams, it might just work without spoiling the effect of the track side wall being more or less see-through.

[Gary S]

I'm sure hoping that some of you try all these idea and post photos so I can see if I should do the same on my layout!

[shortliner]

Thinking on further about this, I wonder if it would be possible to produce the exterior of a building in decal format, that could be applied to the exterior of the acrylic/perspex box - still allowing it to be "see through", but giving some "realism" to the outside? It might even be possible to do it as seperate "storeys", so that the builder could change the exterior by inserting different sectional pieces as required.

[MasonJar]

Thinking on further about this, I wonder if it would be possible to produce the exterior of a building in decal format, that could be applied to the exterior of the acrylic/perspex box - still allowing it to be "see through", but giving some "realism" to the outside? It might ecen be possible to do it as seperate "storeys", so that the builder could change the exterior by inserting different sectional pieces as required.

This is what the decals that cover vehicle windows (taxis, busses) are like. Thay have soem sort of perforation that from the outside is not noticable, but allows occupants to see out. I have not looked at them up close, but I do wonder if it is "scalable".

Andrew

[shortliner]

I have refered this thread to someone I know who does Vinyls for OO scale models here in UK - hopefully he will get back to me/us

[FCIN]

Been experimenting some with placing a warehouse type structure on the front edge of the layout. I made a simple mock up by taking 6 Athearn boxes that cars came in (each 10 inches long by 3 1/2 inches wide X 2 inches deep) and placed them together in two rows on edge, making a simulated structure that is 217.5 feet long - 29 feet deep and 25 feet high. Since many modern warehouse type structures are in the range of 25-35 feet high I figure this is a good approximation.

With my bench work height of 50 inches, I can easily look over the top - read the numbers on the car ends and easily uncouple the cars with the simple uncoupling tool I use. Even though you can't see the cars behind the mock up structure, it does give a nice effect when you look down the track and can see cars spotted at industries on both sides of the track. An effect that I want to be able to duplicate if practical.

I do like the idea of perhaps having at least one structure with a detailed interior and open freight doors and actually be able to see the cars spotted on the track through a semi-transparent wall, provided it isn't too obvious that the wall is semi-transparent. However, even if the only way you can see the cars would be through open warehouse doors and/or some windows and by looking over the top of the structure to couple/uncouple as I've been experimenting with - I'm really thinking that this is workable. It would certainly duplicate the way that many industrial spurs are laid out.

As for a structure with cars spotted inside the building - not sure that would work well at all without having to pull everything and re-spot them after switching them outside the structure. But even that could be doable if necessary.

Will play around with this some more to see how it feels over time.

[faraway]

That has been my first warehouse at the edge. Do not forget to do the walls thick enough. I had to redo the entire building because the walls were one layer styrene only. Sorry, can't find photo of the second warehouse with correct thick walls.


I did never feel happy been separated from the track by the warehouse. May be that is because it was directly in front of my face when I sat at my default position. It was a feeling only but very disturbing.
That is what it looks today.

[FCIN]

That has been my first warehouse at the edge. Do not forget to do the walls thick enough. I had to redo the entire building because the walls were one layer styrene only. Sorry, can't find photo of the second warehouse with correct thick walls.

I did never feel happy been separated from the track by the warehouse. May be that is because it was directly in front of my face when I sat at my default position. It was a feeling only but very disturbing.

Thanks so much for posting these photos! I knew I'd seen this before and it's certainly like what I'd like to have on the ISL.

Since I operate standing and walking along with the train or sitting on a high stool sometimes to relieve the aching back - I don't think it would bother me to have a structure or two on the edge like this. Right now, the only thing that is bothering me about the mock up, is the fact that it's just a bunch of Athearn boxes on edge and doesn't look much like a warehouse.

As for the wall thickness. I see what you mean. If the building is of concrete, brick or block construction, then you'd sure have to make sure the walls looked thick enough. However, if the building is of metal sheathed construction as so many are, they wouldn't be very thick in cross-section at all - but you would have to be able to see the corrugations on the inner wall. Do like the look of your structure - thin walls or not.

Looking at this interior warehouse photo, you can see that it would be pretty simple to duplcate. It even appears that the wall by the track is actually made of a semi-transparent material that allows light into the structure, but could just appear that way because of the interior lighting.    

[fast car]

Let's run this up the flag pole and see if anyone salutes...

Those of us modeling ISL's are always looking at prototype industrial spurs and I don't need to tell you that in most cases, you see rail served industry tracks on both sides of the industrial spur or main track. Whether in dense industrial areas:
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=k&ll=2...00545&z=18
Or in more open areas, such as this:
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=43.11...9&t=k&z=17

Since most ISL's are built on narrow shelves, for the most part, we tend to put our structures against the backdrop, but on the front edge of the shelf, we try to pick "open" industries such as a team track or just model a part of a loading dock and imagine that the rest of the structure is behind the dock, as has been done and usually recommended by Lance Mindheim and others.

Here are examples of the type of structure/track arrangements I'm talking about and a few of my own thoughts about them...

First we have structures on both sides of and parallel to the main track:[ATTACHMENT NOT FOUND]The obvious problems are having to reach over the front structure and not being able to see what is spotted behind it unless you carry a mirror in your pocket. It's usually recommended that if you do have an arrangement like this, that the front structure should be positioned so that you don't have to reach over it - but that may not be practical if you are trying to model an actual track/industry arrangement.

Next we have structures on both sides of the main track but one track is at an angle or curving away:[ATTACHMENT NOT FOUND]I think this might be a bit more workable in that you can look around the end of the building and see what's spotted there, but there is still the reach over problem.

Finally, we have an industry where the track runs inside the building (with or without another track opposite it) - a very common prototype situation:[ATTACHMENT NOT FOUND]I've had some thoughts on doing something like this where you'd actually be able to see inside the structure and have a detailed interior looking something like this:[ATTACHMENT NOT FOUND]Besides the reach over aspect, all these arrangements share the same basic problem - coupling/uncoupling cars behind or inside the structure. I manually uncouple all my cars and would not want to necessarily have to pull the whole track, just to get say the first or second car of a 4 car cut.

So I'm wondering how many of you have actually placed structures on the layout edge, where the track would be behind or even inside the structure and what your thoughts/experiences about doing something like that are.

I had a similar issue when attempting to model a double warehouse that had four tracks between the two structures. However, since I had four tracks the best solution was to us a under track uncoupler on the track that was next to the structure closest to the edge. The Lance Mindheim photo below show the two structures that were tied together with breezeway in Miami.



Below was my attempt to model this railroad deadend, that was situated near the end of my shelf layout. Instead on modeling just the interior, I chose to model the entire structure with a two lane road running along the edge. I also situated a breezeway between two structures that were neat the edge to allow visibility through the walls.