CP Scarborough Harbor Branch Line - HO Scale

[Gary S]

Tetters, I don't understand about the slip and the slopes and such. Could you clue me in a bit?

[tetters]

Tetters, I don't understand about the slip and the slopes and such. Could you clue me in a bit?

This is the look I am going for... minus the trucks axle deep in water. I hope that this picture explains it better then I could with words.



The whole operation seems so sketch if you ask me. You can use that finely honed intuition of yours and judge for yourself Gary. I mean to say that if I didn't see it done in photo's I'd have never believed that they actually moved freight along the lakes in this manner. Especially when you look at the float operations in New York Harbor. Everything there is so robust and huge, meanwhile in stark contrast to that, hidden in the mountainous backwater regions of B.C. they used 12 by lumber, what looks like some spare parts and scrap rail they had lying around and viola! Car Float Operations! I mean careful examination of the counterweights on that transfer slip and you soon figure out that they are metal wheels salvaged from trucks.

I am looking forward to going home tonight and getting the inner track connected to slip so I can test that side out. Then I'll focus on completing the decking to connect to the float and the uprights.

[Harry]

Hello Tetters,

I have read and were you've done well. Great

[mountaingoatgreg]

Wow...WOW...

Not Sure I would want to ride the loco over that track
Not saying you did a bad job just would make me really nervous hovering on rotten wood without being equipped with proper railroad water wings...
I say the photos in RMC?? with the CP Baldwin??? shoving cars onto a similar arrangent and wondered why they wouldn't cut down a few more trees and get the track out of the water
Also the poor track inspector that has to walk his tracks would need to be scuba certified...Hey scuba Dave we have a job for you, go see if those cars are still on the rail

[tetters]

Just give everyone some more insight on what I am trying to model here. I took a screen cap of the transfer slip drawing I am using. I will be modifying my slip to look more like the ones at Slocan and Kaslo as opposed to Rosebery. The full sized drawing is located at the Canadian Pacific Historical Assosiation's website.

[P5se Camelback]

Is that a solution to the problem of water too shallow to get the barge any closer and for some reason, not being able to dredge out a slip for a more traditional "ramp" from terra firma to floating railroad tracks on a flat-bottomed boat?

I can't say I've ever seen that method of getting freight cars on a barge before, but then I've only ever seen the rail-cars-on-barge routine before in Philly and New York . :?

What do they do when the weather gets cold? Just wonderin'.

[tetters]

Is that a solution to the problem of water too shallow to get the barge any closer and for some reason, not being able to dredge out a slip for a more traditional "ramp" from terra firma to floating railroad tracks on a flat-bottomed boat?

I can't say I've ever seen that method of getting freight cars on a barge before, but then I've only ever seen the rail-cars-on-barge routine before in Philly and New York . :?

What do they do when the weather gets cold? Just wonderin'.

Hey BiL,

I'd have to say, all of the above to answer your first question. However Slocan Lake has a maximum depth of over 900ft! From what I've read, in most areas the depth drops sharply a few meters out from the shoreline too. So I dunno...perhaps it was the economics and the difficulty of establishing a NY type harbour network in the area? I also guess that the lakes rose and fell during the seasons due to spring melt from the mountains. By placing the slip on some rail they could tow it up and down the tracks depending on the height of the lake. The only clue I could see to support this idea is there is cable attached the slip that runs off the slip and up the slope inbetween the tracks. My guess is that when the lake levels change they could either pull or lower the slip. Then again I could be completely talking out of my backside. :?

I was recently given a book by a club member that has a lot of photographs of rail operations during all times of the year. There is one photo graph that shows the lake with a very thin layer of ice on it. However, from what I've also read about the area is that the lakes generally never ice over and are ice free year round. So I'm guessing that the ice wasn't a problem. However I bet winter was still a difficult time to operate regardless of the lake conditions.

[P5se Camelback]

... I also guess that the lakes rose and fell during the seasons due to spring melt from the mountains. By placing the slip on some rail they could tow it up and down the tracks depending on the height of the lake. The only clue I could see to support this idea is there is cable attached the slip that runs off the slip and up the slope inbetween the tracks. My guess is that when the lake levels change they could either pull or lower the slip. Then again I could be completely talking out of my backside. ...

Now that makes perfect sense!!!

My parents had a summer cottage on Lake Wallenpaupack in the Pocono Mountains of Northeast Pennsylvania. It is a man-made lake ... Pennsylvania Power and Light dammed up a stream back in about 1932 or thereabouts and the water level rises and falls. In the spring, with the snow melt, the lake level rises, sometimes as much as 20 to 30 feet (laterally up the slope of the "shoreline") and as they let water out to make power, the level drops. At around Memerial Day, the traditional "open the cottage" long weekend (women clean up the inside, men clean up outside; cut up the trees that fell over the winter, split the wood and stack it to season over the next several years, to use later as fire wood in the fireplace - the only heat in the place!) the water would be at the "winter water line," right up to the dirt of the shore line. By Labor Day at the end of Summer, the water level would be down the slope that same 20 to 30 feet.

In the spring, the "boating dock" and the "swimming dock" are pushed down from their winter spots up on the dirt, above the winter water line, and floated (on 55 gallon drums) out onto the lake. Two heavy lines hold the docks in to the shore. As the water level drops, the lines are relaxed and the docks are pushed out.

Sounds like the same operation that the railroad must engineer at the rail ferry "float." It wasn't much fun with a couple of docks, I can only imagine how tough it must be with rails and all that go along with them!

[tetters]

Glad my intuition was right then. I remember my Uncle's cottage up north and how in the spring time with all the snow melt, the lake would rise up to the point that the cottage would be in lake while the shoreline would be several feet behind it. Guess that's why the cottages along the shoreline were all built on piles.

He too would have pull up the dock every season...lest it float away and then launch it back into the lake when the levels fell back to "normal".

[Gary S]

Okay, the drawing makes me see what is going on. Nice solution to the varying water levels. You've picked a unique operation to model. Great job, look forward to more photos as your work progresses.

[tetters]

Okay, the drawing makes me see what is going on. Nice solution to the varying water levels. You've picked a unique operation to model. Great job, look forward to more photos as your work progresses.

Yeah. That's what really sold me. I'd heard about it, in fact I think one of the members (ocali?) commented on CP doing this type of car float operation but I never really gave it another thought and I should have listened and dug deeper when it was suggested. Truth be told, I was already re-evaluating the pier, truss bridge and float operations I had originally planned on but didn't know what exactly I was going to do about it.

That was...until I saw a recent edition of RMC. They did a several page article about the CP Float Ops in BC plus a handful of great pictures. Immediately I was sold on the idea. It looked so dynamic, so crazy, so dangerous...so Canadian. I could also model my float operation without having to do so much Freelancing Gymnastics to justify it. Now I can say with a certain amount of conviction that my layout is a Freelanced Prototype based on Car Float Operations in the Kootenay Region of British Columbia.

Which brings me to another thing that has crossed my mind. Eventually I'll be opening a new thread and no longer posting layout progress in this one. It doesn't make sense to keep calling it Scarborough Harbor when the prototype is on the otherside of the country. So I'll have to think of a new name for my CP Branchline. A name that gives a feel for the area of the Kootenay Region. Once I install the float...I'll have to give the new name some serious consideration.

[Russ Bellinis]

Now I can say with a certain amount of conviction that my layout is a Freelanced Prototype based on Car Float Operations in the Kootenay Region of British Columbia.

Which brings me to another thing that has crossed my mind. Eventually I'll be opening a new thread and no longer posting layout progress in this one. It doesn't make sense to keep calling it Scarborough Harbor when the prototype is on the otherside of the country. So I'll have to think of a new name for my CP Branchline. A name that gives a feel for the area of the Kootenay Region. Once I install the float...I'll have to give the new name some serious consideration.

I'm thinking Kootenay Branch.

[cnw1961]

Russ, that is exactly what I was thinking when I was reading Tetter’s last post.

[doctorwayne]

There are some ideas (and lots of related information) HERE. Click on "Steam Navigation".
Here's a MAP of the area with some place names.

Wayne

[tetters]

Thanks Russ and Kurt for pointing out the painfully obvious name choice...but I was kinda going for the less obvious.