TastyBake ISL

[FCIN]

If I wanted to get another type of car onto the layout for variety, would sugar be delivered in any other types of hoppers? Maybe something that is just gravity discharged?

Also, am I correct in thinking that the pressure aide hoppers are good for cornstarch?
Mark

Mark;

Powder like commodities such as sugar or flour wouldn't be transported in gravity discharge covered hoppers, such as those designed for hauling feed or grain. The discharge gates and loading hatches don't seal airtight. The Airslide and now the Pressure Aid type cars were designed for such commodities. Corn starch in pressure aid type covered hopppers (even Airslides) would be right.

Now if your bakery was large enough to have its own milling operation, then you could well be receiving gravity discharge covered hoppers of oats, wheat or corn (think Frito's) which would be milled in to flour or processed in other ways.

Depending on what your bakery produces, you may well receive tank cars of corn syrup (which is actually a replacement for the more expensive cane sugar) and larger tank cars of vegetable oil. A good way to see what commodities you might be receiving would be to look at the ingredients on some products too. For instance, I'm looking at the ingredients on a box of Cheerios right now and it contains: Whole Grain Oats, Modified Corn Starch, Sugar, Salt and Wheat Starch.

You might also receive box cars of packaging materials. There are quite a few companies around that specialize in producing printed packaging for other companies.

[faraway]

Ed, can you give me, and others?, a short lesson how to identify on a model of a covered hopper if it is designed for gravity discharge or pressure air.
Some have the end of a pipe close to each bay at the bottom. Is that the pipe to be attached to a hose for pressure air discharge while the simple opening at the bottom is for gravity?

The only thing I learned and can identify is that hoppers for grain etc. have few long hatches in the center of the roof while others e.g. for cement, plastic pellets have 6-8 round hatches on both sides of the roof.

[Russ Bellinis]

Actually, I think modern hoppers used in cement service use center hatches. I'm going to the Cajon Division NMRA meet in Barstow on Oct. 8 and will go on a tour of the Cemex plant in Vistorville that afternoon. Part of the tour is to go into the room in the silo where they operate the machinery to load the hoppers. Out the window is a very good view of the loading operation of the hoppers. The operators window is 10 to 15 feet from the loading hatches.

[FCIN]

Ed, can you give me, and others?, a short lesson how to identify on a model of a covered hopper if it is designed for gravity discharge or pressure air.

Sort of a tall order, but I'll try to make it as simple as possible.

As you mentioned, gravity discharge covered hoppers designed for transporting grain, fertilizer and similar commodities generally have trough hatches down the center of the roof to facilitate rapid loading and sliding discharge gates on the bottom of the hoppers. They come in all sizes from 2 bay (frequently used to transport cement) to the new large 4 bay cars that are designed for transporting distillers dried grain. The 3 bay cars, are primarily used for transporting grain and similar commodities.

The next variation would be covered hoppers intended to transport plastic pellets and/or some types of products in pellet form. These will usually have the small circular roof hatches and a pipe connection on either side of the hopper bottom. To unload them, the industry will attach a hose to the pipe connection and vacuum out the contents. There are some variations of these that have both the discharge pipe and a sliding gate which would permit unloading by either gravity or vacuum. You will see these in abundance around facilities that produce plastic products and most will have at least 4 bays and be about 62ft in length.

The pressure aid type covered hoppers are the ones you see with a pipe running along one side (perhaps both) that connects to the hopper bottoms and generally have a single discharge connection on one or both sides. Where there is only one discharge connection, you'll see the cars lettered to "Unload This Side" and "Unload Other Side". Air pressure is introduced when unloading to assist in removing the commodity. Most of these tend to have the small circular loading hatches and these cars have airtight seals on them.

The Airslide covered hopper is basically a gravity discharge type covered hopper, but with small circular type roof hatches that seal airtight. The cars have a fabric type lining and air is forced in to them to help the commodity "flow" when unloading. They have very small discharge gates on the bottom of the hoppers, to which the customer will attach small conveyors which are supposed to prevent contamination of the commodity. Although I still see many Airslide covered hoppers, the pressure aid type car is rapidly replacing them these days.

If I had the time right now, I'd point you to photographs of the various types of covered hoppers in use today or perhaps available models of them; but you should be able to find plenty of examples doing an Internet search. I would also suggest looking at leasing company or rail car manufacturing web sites such as Trinity Industries, ACF, etc. for some good examples. There are so many variations of what I'd call the basic car type, it would take quite a while to look up examples of them all.

[faraway]

Ed, thank you for the long explanation. That is fine to know what to look for.

[Steve Williams]

Yes, thanks Ed. I found that useful as well. Generally speaking (if one can generalise), what sort of commodities would be found in the pressure aid and airflow type of hopper as opposed to the other two types?

[FCIN]

Steve;

Sugar, flour, corn meal, corn starch and probably some types of dry chemicals are a few commodities that I know are handled in the pressure aid type covered hoppers. I'm sure there are many other commodities that I just haven't thought of that would likely be transported in them. Others on here may be aware of a particular commodity that is handled in the pressure aid cars.

[Southern Tuxedo]

If I wanted to get another type of car onto the layout for variety, would sugar be delivered in any other types of hoppers? Maybe something that is just gravity discharged?

Also, am I correct in thinking that the pressure aide hoppers are good for cornstarch?
Mark

Mark;

Powder like commodities such as sugar or flour wouldn't be transported in gravity discharge covered hoppers, such as those designed for hauling feed or grain. The discharge gates and loading hatches don't seal airtight. The Airslide and now the Pressure Aid type cars were designed for such commodities. Corn starch in pressure aid type covered hopppers (even Airslides) would be right.

Ok, Airslides for sugar it is. I just figured that granular sugar wouldn't compact like finer ground materials and might not need assistance for unloading.

Now if your bakery was large enough to have its own milling operation, then you could well be receiving gravity discharge covered hoppers of oats, wheat or corn (think Frito's) which would be milled in to flour or processed in other ways.

Nope, TastyBake outsources all milling operations, but...

Depending on what your bakery produces, you may well receive tank cars of corn syrup (which is actually a replacement for the more expensive cane sugar) and larger tank cars of vegetable oil. A good way to see what commodities you might be receiving would be to look at the ingredients on some products too. For instance, I'm looking at the ingredients on a box of Cheerios right now and it contains: Whole Grain Oats, Modified Corn Starch, Sugar, Salt and Wheat Starch.

You might also receive box cars of packaging materials. There are quite a few companies around that specialize in producing printed packaging for other companies.

...they do just about everything else. So they will be receiving all sorts of other cars like you listed.

Ed, Thank You for your continued help, I really appreciate it.

[Southern Tuxedo]

Wow Ed that’s a lot of good information on covered hoppers.

Thanks for taking the time to post it.

Mark

[Steve Williams]

Thanks Ed. That's all really useful information. Much obliged. I was only talking to a friend about not knowing what is carried in the various hoppers a couple of days ago, and then up you come with the answer.

[FCIN]

Thanks Gentlemen. Glad my descriptions of the basic types of covered hoppers was of some help. There are so many variations of those "basic" covered hopper descriptions you could spend a lot of time finding examples of them.

Spent the day train watching on NS yesterday (first time I've been out of the house all day long since my surgery) and my sidekick and I got to watching all the covered hoppers on the many trains we saw. With all the different freight car manufacturers you sure have a plenty of styles to choose from and many require a close look to tell just what type of car you're seeing.

Here's a good web site that shows examples of the cars produced by American Railcar Industries (ARI - formerly ACF):
http://www.americanrailcar.com/RailcarMa...uring.aspx. Most of the pages pertaining to car descriptions are in PDF format and their covered hoppers are all based on the Centerflow car style, but some really good information here, including drawings of the car dimensions. Be sure and look at their Thru Sill car types for some great examples of gravity discharge covered hoppers. Incidentally, Centerflow, Pressureaide and Thru Sill are their trademarked names for some of these car types. Other manufacturers build the same type cars, but with different names for them and of course different car body styles.

[faraway]

...Here's a good web site...

Indeed, a good source of information. Thanks again.

[Southern Tuxedo]

Ok, so it’s been a while and I think that it is time for an update.

I have made a slight change to the track plan by adding a spur on the lower left. Now I am starting to replace my generic mock-ups with some buildings, details and copies of the actual structures (or the parts of) that I plan to use, to make sure that everything will fit. Now that that’s almost done I will start actually building the layout, but before I can do that I have a question. I don’t want to lay the track directly on the OSB because I might want some subtle topography below grade. I don’t think that I want to use foam so that leaves cork, ceiling tiles or homosote or ??? Does anyone have any advice for me on how to procede?

Here's the original concept and photo for the layout. HO scale, 20"+/- x 96", ME code 70 track. Don't forget that there will be an extension on the left end of the layout to facilitate trains running on and off the layout and switching the industries.
   

Here it is as of today.
   

And here are some close-up shots.
   
   
   

Mark

[ratled]

Mark – I’m a little to the thread but thanks for posting the updates. I’m not sure how much relief you are looking for but I can picture most of your scene as “street running” through the complex. I can’t see any place that you can something other than maybe a small drainage ditch. You could use any of those products you mentioned. HO cork will limit you to 1/8” in depth. You could look at some foam core board (Gator Board) up to say ½”. I haven’t used Homastoe or ceiling tile so I can’t help you there but I would also consider what is easiest and reasonable (price wise) to get.

A couple of questions for you if you don’t mind since you basically mocked up a couple of areas I’m working on now.
In the beginning you said this was 18” x 96” but then said 20+”, so I can figure how it will work for me, what is the width as pictured above?
About how long is the large main building flat? And the bump out portion of that building next to the water tower?

Thanks for sharing the layout

Steve

[sailormatlac]

Nice work. I love this factory yard feeling and your new industry building is very nice (i't fun when large building are indeed large on a layout.

I agree with what was said previously, this would be more like a gravel parking lot with some paved area. Not the place you expect a lot of topography. Maybe your best bet would be cork mat. You cut it where you want to make ditches. Easier this way.

Matt