A sad day in Oslo

[Green_Elite_Cab]

I heard this on the radio Friday night, and you were the first person that came to mind, I'm happy to hear you are alright.

As for the attack, i cannot even come up with words to say. Violent acts like these defy logic.

[tetters]

Violent acts like these defy logic.

Agreed. I was saying today that his actions make no sense. I mean if he was so bent on his anti muslim crusade, then why attack and kill over 90 people who were obviously NOT MUSLIM!!! Instead he attacks and kills his own country men and women. A good chunk of them teenagers!!!

He is nothing more then a coward, a spineless, messed up one at that who will never receive adequate punuishment for this atrocity.

[torikoos]

Stein, rest assured in the knowledge that the world stands united with the norwegian people, and strongly denounces extremism in all its forms, be it christian, islamic, marxist, neonazi or whatever. Extremism is the worst thing. People are entitled to different opinions, and democracies are build on that exact foundation stone, but never should a different view lead to violence! We grief with you, and I also believe that the good , which is in an overwhelming majority in this world, will overcome the bad. My thoughts go out to all affected by this tragedy.

Koos

[Svein]

According to the news, the death toll is now reduced to 76 people. Apparently he said he felt terrible killing all those beople, but it had to be done. Here's a translation from the Norwegian newspaper Dagbladet from this evening:

(...) Anders Behring Breivik (32), who is accused of bomb attack on ministries and massacre at Utøya, was today remanded in custody for eight weeks with letters and restraining orders, and put in full isolation for four weeks.

Anders Behring Breivik can be kept in custody until 26 September before he must be brought to prison again.

District Court Judge Kim Heger read out the verdict in Oslo Courthouse at 15.15 this afternoon. The ruling was continuously translated into English, in the interests of the large turnout of foreign journalists.

- The court finds that the view of just cause can be suspected of terrorist acts. The court notes that the accused in police interviews has acknowledged bombing including ministries and shooting at Utøya, Heger says.

- Despite the fact that the accused has admitted the facts, he has not admitted guilt. He believes that he had to save Norway and Western Europe from the culture marxists and a Muslim takeover, Heger is citing from the accused's explanation.

Heger refers further from the accused's explanation:

- The motive was to give a strong signal to the people. He would inflict Labour the largest possible loss, and choke future recruitment to the Labour Party.

- The aim was, according to the offender, not to kill as many people as possible, but to give a strong signal to the Labour Party, Heger says. The terror accused 32-year-old has referred to what he believes is the Labour Party's contribution to "mass importation of Muslims" to Norway. (...)

Svein

[Mr Fixit]

And with all that terrorism and destruction he is apparently only up for a maximum of 21 years, which is astounding.

Mark

[Svein]

And with all that terrorism and destruction he is apparently only up for a maximum of 21 years, which is astounding.

Mark

21 years is the longest ordinary prison sentence yes, but there's also a custody sentence, which makes it possible to hold him detained for the rest of his life, and that's probably what's going to happen here.

Svein

[steinjr]

And with all that terrorism and destruction he is apparently only up for a maximum of 21 years, which is astounding.

Nope. We have something called "preventive detention" in English ("sikring" in Norwegian). A violent criminal likely to re-offend when released can get sentenced to a number of years in preventive detention. At the end of that period, a new hearing - and (in this case) a pretty much guaranteed extension of the preventive detention with 5-10 more years. Repeat until he no longer is a threat - i.e. until he is dead.

It may not be called a prison term, but it has exactly the same effect - he stays locked up.

Stein

[steinjr]

Violent acts like these defy logic.

Agreed. I was saying today that his actions make no sense. I mean if he was so bent on his anti muslim crusade, then why attack and kill over 90 people who were obviously NOT MUSLIM!!! Instead he attacks and kills his own country men and women. A good chunk of them teenagers!!!

He is nothing more then a coward, a spineless, messed up one at that who will never receive adequate punuishment for this atrocity.

I agree that he is a spineless coward, and that he deserves to spend the rest of his life in jail.

The reason he gave for killing all those people was that it was their liberal viewpoints on immigration that lead to the muslims supposedly taking over. He figured he was killing off the next generation of future labor party leaders.

The result? There were 150 000 people from all parties (and non-voters) on the streets of Oslo today, carrying roses - which is the symbol of the labor party, to show their sympathy and compassion for the people who were attacked, and their rejection of this cowardly attack on our democratic system. Many other cities and towns had similar gatherings.

I'll stop posting on this subject now - it is too depressing for a hobby forum.

We will give the perpetrator his day(s) in court, but without giving him much chance to speechify and pose - the judge apparently was pretty clear when the accused demanded to be allowed to appear in a home made "uniform" - I think even the accused understood him loud and clear ...

And then we will forget this worthless bastard, and instead remember the people who did their best to help the wounded and fleeing young ones and those who fell trying to stop the massacre at the camp - among them an unarmed policeman, the brother of our crown princess.

Thank you all for your expressions of sympathy!

Stein

[riverman]

I find it extremely difficult to properly express my sympathy to all those who suffered loss because of this piece of scum. I just hope they can find some solace.
As for the perpertrator, I feel sure that somewhere in Norway there is a deep dark dungeon that he could be thrown into, and if nobody else will do it, I will glady throw the key into the nearest lake. I am an atheist but at times like this I really do wish there was a hell for filth like this.
Deepest sympathy
Paul

[steinjr]

Thank you for the expression of sympathy.

No dungeons, but the perp is locked up in a prison built before WW2, in a small cell which has one bed, one chair, one table, one toilet and one sink, and he is kept there, isolated from contact with everybody else bit hus lawyer, the prison pastor, the wardens and the policemen who interogate him. Someone will be opening the hatch in his door every 10 minutes around the clock, to make sure he does not get a chance to take the easy way out before the trial.

This prison has relatively little in common with our most modern prisons, where we keep low-risk prisoners who have almost served out their terms, who are being readied for rehabilitation to society.

The perp is very likely to get 21 years of prison for murder, followed by "preventive detention" which then will be renewed every five years for the remainder of his life - I suspect that it will prove extremely difficult to find any judge in this country who will be willing to vouch for this person no longer being a threat to society after 21+ years in prison - this was not something done in a fit of passion or during a short bout of temporary insanity, but something planned for a long time - over a period of years of devious preparations, and ruthlessly carried out, one murder at a time.

Our strongest rejection of him and everything he stood for will come in about 3 1/2 weeks, when we will be conducting local/regional elections all over the country, as we do every 4 years. Turnout is expected to be high - and likely higher than normal. In two years, we will be running our national elections, which we also do every 4 years. This country will continue to be ruled by ballots, not bullets.

Stein

[Mr Fixit]

There were photos of the scumbag in the paper the other day as he was showing the police around the island. He was wearing a harness similar to a safety harness I would wear working on a roof or in an elevated work platform, and I wondered why? Then I realised he was being made to wear it by the police as a full body restraint system, and restrained by a very stron leash.

A dog restraint system for a scumbag.

Mark

[steinjr]

It's been a year since the last update on this thread. It isn't model railroad related, but since I posted on it when it happened, I figured I would post one last update.

Today Anders Behring Breivik was sentenced for the terrorist attacks last summer. He got the harshest sentence possible under Norwegian law - a "containment" verdict - where the time in jail can be extended indefinitely (in five year installments) if he still is considered dangerous after his is done serving the *initial* sentence of 21 years. Theorethically he can apply for parole after a minimum of 10 years has been served, but it is for all practical purposes a life time sentence - this guy will not get paroled early, and his term will be extended as needed to keep him locked up.

Stein

[ezdays]

Yes, this would be an outrageously light sentence for here in the US, but he got as much as possible that your law allows and that's about all you can ask for. His "apology" makes it clear that he would be a menace if he was ever released and I'm sure the officials understand that.

[Mr Fixit]

A good result for justice to see this nutjob locked up.

However I will say that we have a similar criminal here in Victoria named Julian Knight and it is amazing just how fast those ten years will come around.
Our problem with J.K is that he has used the time in prison to educate himself about the law to the point where a special law was enacted naming him as
Vexatious Litigant to prevent him tying up the judicial system with pain in the arse cases, he is nearing a parole hearing, but he wont get out.
The problem with him is that he gets his ugly mug in the media fairly regularly and if this irritates me then it must cause his victims and their relatives
repeated pain.

I wonder if the cop who arrested him now wishes he had shot him down as I sure wish he had.

Another shooting we had at around the same time never gets mentioned because the gunman "mysteriously fell to his death" in the incident.

We also had a mass shooting in Tasmania at Port Arthur and that nutter will never see freedom.

Port Arthur resulted in major changes to Australian Gun Laws, for the better.

Thoughts to the victim's and their families.

Mark

[Tyson Rayles]

I somehow missed this the first time around, my heart goes out to all those impacted by this terrible act.