Liberty Industrial Spur

[Tyson Rayles]

"why are we talking about N-scale?"

Because it's the Normal scale?

I didn't catch that someone was refering to three doors when I was refering to the distances, sorry. :oops:

[steinjr]

So I have been reading back through some of my previous layout threads, and I saw some great posts by Stein and Bil that I can only now understand, there was one post by Bil that really stood out, he wrote about how he found a theme and stuck with it, I realised that this has been my problem all along, I understand that I will most likely never find the perfect theme, but I can't even narrow it down to a few themes.

How can I narrow down my list of possible themes?

Not trying to be rude, but I think you are focusing on the wrong part of BiL's point. Your challenge has never been to narrow down your choices, and choose one subject. You have done that several times already.

Your challenge has been to stick with whatever you have chosen. I don't think making yet another short list of possible themes will change that.

So the question becomes - what is it that makes you abandon a plan and start looking for another?

Stein

[Tyson Rayles]

Because he doesn't care to do any building, he just likes the planning part?

[Brakie]

Because he doesn't care to do any building, he just likes the planning part?

Maybe he's not happy with the results?

Seems he has been given tons of ideas and just maybe none of 'em suits his needs since he flip flop a lot-the same can be said about my plans for Slate Creek since every plan to date has been good but,missing the center piece.

Maybe after the pending move Slate Creek will develop into what I am looking for.

[Justinmiller171]

Because he doesn't care to do any building, he just likes the planning part?

Hmm... perhaps you are right, however I do want a layout of some sort.

[Ralph]

Hi Justin,

Many modelers enjoy the creative process of developing a theme and track plan. You seem to have struck that chord for a lot of members. The length and longevity of your thread bears that out. If your favorite part of the hobby is to design plans, that's cool. You say however, that you want to build a layout, so I offer this advice:

Dare to fail. There is no perfect track plan. Your design might have some flaws but you can improve them later. After running trains I've changed some of the sidings and spurs on my layout more than once, and I dare say most of us have done that over time.

Reconcile the idea that making a decision will mean compromising or sacrificing some elements of railroading you enjoy. We can't have everything. Choose the most interesting and pleasing elements and let the others go.

Use self-discipline in decision making. Select your five favorite themes (no more than five). Write them on a list. After two days cross off two of them. Set yourself a deadline of one week to choose one of the three. Stay with that choice and build!

I'm not a motivational speaker...and I don't live in a van down by the river (old SNL reference) but I'd like to encourage you to make a choice and start working on that layout!

Ralph

[Justinmiller171]

Use self-discipline in decision making. Select your five favorite themes (no more than five). Write them on a list. After two days cross off two of them. Set yourself a deadline of one week to choose one of the three. Stay with that choice and build!

1.Modern-day Southern Pacific in Oregon
2.Transition-Era Western Pacific in California
3.Milwaukee Road either Modern or Transition Era
4.Early transition-era somewhere along the east-coast
5.Modern-day Santa Fe in Arizona

Hmm... It's going to be hard to cross some off, but it should help me finally decide on a theme

[FCIN]

So the question becomes - what is it that makes you abandon a plan and start looking for another?
Stein

I think that's the NUMBER 1 question you should ask yourself. You've come up with several nice plans/themes over the past few months. Any one of them would have at least provided a reasonable amount of operation and kept your interest, and ideas flowing, even if you never got any further than to have it operating and no more scenery than some structure mockups.

As Ralph pointed out, there is NO perfect track plan and there may be many things you'd like to include, but just can't because of space, time, financial considerations, etc. Actually being able to operate something will show you were you might need or want to change some things including the entire theme of the layout. But most importantly, it will give you something to do while you think things out in your search for that "This Is It!!!" layout.

Even though the track is just temporarily pinned to the bench work, I've had an operating layout for several months now and have made numerous changes to the basic plan/theme; some major, some minor, but it really helps to see what may or may not work and is getting me closer to the time when I'll start actual construction of what I hope will keep me busy for some time. Most of all, I enjoy being able to operate something when the mood strikes and that, more than anything else, keeps my interest alive.

Don't worry so much about what theme you want right now, but rather go back and look over the plans/themes that you've already come up with - select one - put the track down temporarily and get it running - put together some structure mockups - and then you'll have something to keep your interest up while you continue to plan. If, after a few operating sessions, you don't like something, then try something else. A switching layout theme may not even be your cup of tea, but you'll at least have something to keep you entertained, while you plan that larger layout with a different theme for the time in the future when you can build your dream layout.

[Justinmiller171]

So the question becomes - what is it that makes you abandon a plan and start looking for another?

Well Mainly because they were all to large for me to complete, but also they didn't interest me enough to work on, besides for being interesting to work on, I want a layout that has a prototype that I can study, I like doing research on railroad related stuff, I love reading about how real railroads operated and how industries were switches, etc....

Here is a list of the model railroads that I have started (all are currently dismantled) :

1. 4x8, got it to the scenery stage but tore it up to build a switching layout, didn't have a theme but was still interesting to work on

2. Miami layout, I got track down but could never run trains on it due electrical problems, it was interesting to work on at first but realised it was too much for me to build

3. SP layout, I once again only got track down, realised it was an uninteresting theme and tore up track

4. Liberty Industrial Spur, I got track and wiring done, It was fun but scenery was too daunting of a task and it was also an uninteresting theme

The interesting thing I have noticed is that the only layout I actually enjoyed was the 4x8, even though it had a generic theme and had very low operational abilities

[TTRAK_andrew]

G'day Justin,
Your remark about the 4x8 layout interests me. I would hazard a guest to why you enjoyed it: trains were actually running, and running. While we may have a high level of interest in switching and protypical operation, often just having a train or two circulating around the layout gives the operator a sense of having a `working layout' and a visible result for their efforts. Trains are going somewhere! At present I don't have anything permanently set up, but when I get out the T-TRAK modules, or the Tropicana Warehouse modules, and have something running then there is a real sense of achievement and fulfillment.
Creating scenery appears to be a big issue also. It does take a lot of time, and don't be surprised or discouraged by that, it is just a reality. When you get your track fixed down and the electrics going I suggest that you work out the length of track that is LEAST LIKELY to be moved by a change of plans and then paint and ballast about 30cm (12") of it. After that work on some basic ground cover, grass etc around it and experiment with trees, bushes etc. You will then have a small patch of generic scenery that can grow out over the rest of the layout into more specific terrain and scenes.
Build up a kit or two of small buildings that are not rail related but would make sense to be near your modelled area. You can then place them about the layout in its un-sceniced areas to bring a bit of life and character there.
As I think others have said, also remember that this is unlikely to be your one and only layout, or your best layout. From looking at your profile I see that you are under 25 years of age, you have plenty of time to build many layouts in your life, so take some pressure of yourself and just `have a go'.
It took me quite a while to really come to terms with the building, evaluating, discarding/rebuilding process, but it is very worthwhile.
I hope some of these words are of help.
Regards, Andrew G.
Always learning, from both wins and losses.
My Model Railway blog: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://ttrakandrew.wordpress.com/">http://ttrakandrew.wordpress.com/</a><!-- m -->

[FCIN]

The interesting thing I have noticed is that the only layout I actually enjoyed was the 4x8, even though it had a generic theme and had very low operational abilities

Well then, that may well be the way you want to go. Obviously, a switching layout is not something that really interests you and there is certainly nothing wrong with that. Most of the model railroaders that I've met over the years prefer layouts where they can do continuous running, whether or not the layout is based on a prototype or has a specific theme. Heaven knows there are hundreds of plans designed for a 4x8 out there and many include enough operation to make them interesting. Perhaps you could even find the room to expand such a layout to 4x12 feet, just to give you a bit more running?

Some of the best 4x8 plans that I've seen featured two passing tracks with a theme based on the transition era or early diesel power (2-8-0's or GP-7/9 RS-3, etc.) and short equipment (50ft cars maximum). One passing track would be primarily for staging purposes and the other representing a small town with a couple of spurs off the passing track. Operationally you'd have two trains staged on the layout and would run an eastbound train in to view, which would switch the town and depart, then later a westbound train would do the same. You could also stage meets between the two trains (a snap with DCC) or if the mood struck you, just run a train continuously. I wish I could remember the name of one layout that MR published that I always thought was a great one for a 4x8, but can't at the moment and don't have the track plan book handy. Seems that the name had "Jefferson" in it. Regardless, it was a nice plan with an interesting theme.

Seems like MR recently ran a series of articles with layouts (in various scales) designed for the good old 4x8 that might be worth looking at, along with the numerous 4x8 plans you can find on the Internet. It doesn't have to be packed with track and even a very simple plan might be just what you're looking to do.

[shortliner]

Justin. If you really want a Roundy-roundy, way back in MR there was a layout by my mate Nick Palette called "Conrails Hallsvile, Pa." It is 6' x4' withj a minimum of scenery sxcept for buildingswhich should do what you want . Send me an email to chacmool at lineone dot net and I'll send it to you

[Justinmiller171]

Ed, I think the reason I enjoyed the 4x8 was that I wasn't under any pressure to make things realistic, I am a Model Railroader, when I build a layout I want more of a representation of a place rather than a piece of art, with the 4x8 I was able to focus on the railroad elements, and being able to have a continuous run was one of them.

I may end up building Lance M's "Skills Builder" layout, it would be fairly quick to build to a complete looking state so I can focus on the parts of the hobby I enjoy.

Justin. If you really want a Roundy-roundy, way back in MR there was a layout by my mate Nick Palette called "Conrails Hallsvile, Pa." It is 6' x4' withj a minimum of scenery sxcept for buildingswhich should do what you want . Send me an email to chacmool at lineone dot net and I'll send it to you

I have that article, that was one of the things that got me into realistic operations, my 4x8 was just a loop with some spurs, then after reading that article I tried ops on the layout and they were alot of fun, his plan is one of the only 4x8 plans I would ever use.

[FCIN]

Ed, I think the reason I enjoyed the 4x8 was that I wasn't under any pressure to make things realistic

Justin;
You should never feel like you're under any sort of pressure with model railroading in any form! It's for YOUR enjoyment and should be a stress reliever and not a stress inducer! You also don't need to seek the approval of others and feel like if you don't meet their expectations or skill level then you shouldn't even try. Good enough can be a heck of a lot of fun! Main thing is that you find your niche and enjoy it. If you stay with the hobby, then your skills will improve over time and no doubt your interests will change.

when I build a layout I want more of a representation of a place rather than a piece of art

That puts you in the majority of modelers - a representation is pretty much all any of us can do. Darn few prototype locations that I've ever seen that could be modeled foot for foot, but many people can create darn good representations of that location. I have a friend in Indiana that is going to model the F&C Railroad in N scale and he knows that there is no way he could accurately model a 40 mile long railroad nor even include many of the most interesting features of the line. So to quote him: "It's just going to be a representation of the F&C..."

I may end up building Lance M's "Skills Builder" layout, it would be fairly quick to build to a complete looking state so I can focus on the parts of the hobby I enjoy.

That "Skills Builder" layout is yet another switching theme layout and not much different from his Palmetto Spur layout, so I wonder if you'd really be happy with that. I get the feeling that you'd be happier with a nice simple 4x8 type layout that included some switching and something like I described in my previous posting. Such a layout would not require a lot of track and only a few more turnouts and you could add scenery and structures as time permitted. In the mean time, you could just enjoy running the trains and doing some basic switching on the layout which seems to be your "niche".

[Brakie]

Justin,First realized two things.

First and foremost there is a "perfect" track plan that fills your desires-like that 4x8' layout you had.While getting layout ideas has merits the ideas presented may not fill your requirements since they are based on what others like but,you can still learn from them..I seen three such designs that almost filled my desires for Slate Creek but,the center piece was missing and that's been one of the major Slate Creek hold ups-finding that center piece.

Second In modeling you need to please nobody other then yourself period,end of subject,case closed.You will never please yourself by trying to model for others-I tried once when I was young and it was a fool's goal.


Now as far as ISLs know and understand one needs to enjoy such layouts and they're not for everybody..

My suggestion to you is if you have the room build a 4x8 footer-I think you will be happier from what you have stated.