Upgrading MDC/Roundhouse boxcars

[doctorwayne]

Most of these Recommended Designs were adapted to suit the roads which ordered them, so while the basic dimensions of the car were usually followed (although note the variation in the Santa Fe cars), the doors, ends, roofs and brake equipment could be more-or-less off-the-shelf items. That's how the "Alternate" designs came into being, although the major change there is the diagonal bracing. More cars were built to the Alternate Design than to the Recommended one. Also, on further reading, cars built to the Alternate design did use "Z"-bracing.
The low CNR cars are best represented by the Sylvan model, I think, although the TM car is very close in most respects and a lot cheaper. They come with three different styles of ends: double sheathed vertical wood siding, single sheathed horizontal siding, and, I think, Dreadnaught ends. The latter ones are the closest to the prototype, which used 4/4 Dreadnaught ends. I used Tichy Murphy ends on mine - they're readily available and suitable to my era, if not to that particular prototype. The prototype used both wood and steel doors.
The Accurail single sheathed 9-panel boxcar is actually based on a CNR prototype. I've used it for both CNR and CPR cars, although the CP cars are technically USRA clones - they had a straight centre sill, as opposed to the fishbelly of the Accurail car. Tichy offers both the USRA car and the CPR clone, with the difference being 5/5/5 Murphy ends on the USRA and 7/8 Murphys on the CPR.
If you cut-down the MDC sides, you can build many, if not all, versions of the 1923 Recommended Design. With careful work, the roof could be re-used, although you'd likely have to make or purchase new ends. I see pictures of Murphy, reverse Dreadnaught, flat steel, and single sheathed wood ends, so plenty of room for variety.

Wayne

[sailormatlac]

A big thank again Wayne.

I'm glad to hear the Accurail car is a "direct" match for CNR cars... Makes life easier that way. My TM cars have dreadnaught ends. Should be easy to convert. I was curious, what styrene thickness do you use for redetailling Z bars?

As you said, I'll probably salvage MDC car sides and reuse roof and ends according to prototype practice. I'm quite interested in doing the ATSF original and modified version and the Boston & Maine car (with flat metal ends). The two others, I'll see what I'll find over the net that catch my eye.

Matt

[doctorwayne]

..... My TM cars have dreadnaught ends. Should be easy to convert. I was curious, what styrene thickness do you use for redetailling Z bars?

The bracing on the TM cars is fairly thick: I think that it's supposed to represent Z-bar, but that would have required an undercut mould. I use Evergreen HO scale 1"x4" - also too wide, but it does overhang the edge of the cast-on bracing somewhat and imparts a little more depth to it.
While I enjoy modifying freight cars, very few of them are detail-for-detail representations of specific prototypes. Some of that is due to ignorance of the prototype at the time which I built them, others to a lack of really suitable models (or suitable ones which I couldn't afford) with which to start. That's one reason why I've never faulted manufacturers of cheaper cars (Athearn, TM, MDC, and Walthers) for putting incorrect paint schemes or numbers on their models, although it would have been nice if they had included a note about that possibility. LifeLike Canada did include such a warning on their versions of the Canadian Proto 52' gondolas and flat cars, and also on the Fowler boxcars, stating that the models may not be totally accurate models of the prototype cars. It didn't seem to scare away too many customers.
I think that most who see my cars in photos aren't aware of the discrepancies unless they're pointed out (and I don't mind if others do point them out - that 50' Athearn automobile car which I showed earlier has been modified somewhat and will make another appearance when it's re-finished). If it bothers me enough, I'll redo them, but in many cases, they simply help to fill out a train or a scene. With over 300 freight cars in service, I can usually fake my way past the rivet counters.

Wayne

[sailormatlac]

I totally agree with you. It's more about getting the feeling right than going crazy over details. I prefer to get a bunch of old kits and work my way than spend to much on one car that, itself, if often bound to have discrepancies too.

Matt

[Sumpter250]

I totally agree with you. It's more about getting the feeling right than going crazy over details. I prefer to get a bunch of old kits and work my way than spend to much on one car that, itself, if often bound to have discrepancies too. Matt

The cars I build to stay "home" and run only on my tracks, usually have a lot more detail than the ones I take to the modular shows. Packing/unpacking/handling/loading on the yard track, repacking to transport....all have a way of "undetailing" a well detailed piece of rolling stock. So, the cars used at shows, that suffer the above? , go with minimum detail.

[sailormatlac]

Sumpter, we all have the same problem! It's why I repainted Bachmann, Model Power and other die hard models for the club layout! ;-)

Started to bash seriously my first MDC outside braced car. After taking some measure, it appears the wood panels have exactly the same height as the ATSF BX-12 cars. I wouldn't be surprised MDC used them as prototype.

To make thing easier and get the feeling of working with this model, I decided to build a ATSF BX-12 without raised roof. They had radial Murphy roof and dreadnaught ends. MDC dreadnaught are a little bit crude, but the number of raised panels (when cut to height) is reasonnably similar.

Cutting the car in flats was easier than I expected. I scribed the back and break it in part in less than 5 minutes. Being careful, I was able to salvage the ends and roof.



Here are the car sides when the excess boards are cut off. As Wayne stated, MDC reused the ends and roof tooling of their regular boxcar and added two boards to compensate the wrong proportions. The good point is that the braces are scaled correctly. I also trimmed the lower door railing that was a too thick. I also added 2 styrene strips to represent the kind of metal gutter seen near the roof on the prototype.






Ends: I carefully removed the lower tabs with the circle (don't remember the exact name of this part) and salvaged them for reinstallation. 1.5mm was cut off at the bottom of the ends. The raised panel is now flush with the coupler pocket, which is a feature of the ATSF car (mine isn't exactly correct, but don't bother about small things like that). The upper part was cut down and rounded to accept the new Murphy radial roof. A DVD storage bin was used to give a "correct" diameter. I also cut 6 rounded trusses to support the future roof (0.5mm styrene).





Finally, I reassembled the car with the new trusses. They also add some weight and a lot of strength to the rebuilt car. You will see that the brake housing is now flish with the future roof. According to Westerfield pictures, the prototype was the same too.





Since I removed the lower sill board, the car rides a little high on its truck. I'll sand it a little bit to lower it down by 1.5mm.



Next step: Roof, undeframe details and grabs/ladders. Don't have any decals yet for this car. Don't have suitable doors. Except if I use Intermountain PS-1 boxcar doors and trim them... Probably, I'll get some stuff from Tichy, anyway, I need wood doors and grabs...

[doctorwayne]

That's coming along very nicely, Matt.

Wayne

[modelsof1900]

Matt, a great start to a many more prototypical model - and equipped with a seldom modeled round roof. Very nice work!

[sailormatlac]

Thanks both of you. This project is more challenging than my usual work, but greatly enjoyable. I feel like my modelling skills tremendously improved during the last year. I changed my attitude, striking to overcome obstacles when they come. When one takes his time to work carefully, I think he can achieve great results.

I did a few researches about this car. Found out many prototypes from different roads. I have five cars, which will represent each a different road.

Atchison Topeka & Santa Fe - #212000-
Ends: Dreadnaught 4/4
Roof: Radial Murphy (original); Murphy Raised Panels (rebuild)
Doors: Youngstown
Brake: AB Ajax (rebuild)
Trucks: Bettendorf

Boston & Maine - #71000-71974
Ends: Riveted
Roof: Lap Seam
Doors: Youngstown
Brake: KC - Ajax
Trucks: ARA Type Y

Rock Island - #140000-140999
Ends: Dreadnaught 4/4
Roof: Radial Murphy
Doors: Youngstown
Brake: K - Vertical Staff
Trucks: Dalman Two Level

Louisville & Nashville - #12000-13999
Ends: Murphy 5/5/5
Roof: Metal Clad Murphy
Doors: Wood
Brake: K - Vertical Staff
Trucks: ARA Cast Frame Side

Minneapolis & St. Louis - #24000-24998
Ends: Composite
Roof: Metal Clad Murphy
Doors: Wood
Brake: K - Vertical Staff
Trucks: ARA Cast Frame Side

The car I'm actually modelling will be the Rock Island one. I'll have to remove the brake housing, which will be better I think. I built my radial Murphy roof according to an actual picture of a car I don't know the origin. It has 2 ribs per panel instead of two on the Sunshine model. At this point, I don't care. As Doctorwayne pointed out, these cars were built with MANY different features, even among a same serie. Here's the picture. Maybe it's not Murphy radial at all! Who cares!



I started by making a template in AutoCAD to get the panels position right. I then redrawn it on .5mm styrene. I located ribs, roofwalk and battens for future reference. Parts were referenced from an Accurail single-sheated car.



Battens are made out of two pieces. The first one is a steel flat made out of thick paper (2mm wide) glued to the roof with liquid styrene cement. When doing this kind of work, I don't cut piece to length but prefer to make them longer. It is easier to trim them after they are glued than before. Also, the extra length help to handle them during the gluing process.



The paper strips are then wrapped around the edge of the roof just like the prototype. At first, I cut them flush but quickly found out it wasn't a durable assembly. I then just glued them under the roof. Their thickness shouldn't cause problem when I'll glue the roof in final position.



Once finish, you get a nice detail just like you would expect from any plastic commercial car.



Battens are made out of 2mm x .5mm styrene. Here again, I don't cut them to lenght according to this Murphy's Law corollary: "Everything cut to lenght is too short."



Next step was to add roofwalk support. I thought about skipping this step, but thought it would be worth modelling them. They are made out of 5mm x .5mm styrene. Do I like my new tweezers??? OH YES!!! Up until a week ago, I never used tweezers for my modelling, only using my fingers. Life is now easier and results better.



Panel ribs were made out of paper too. They are .5mm wide, which is hard to cut. My X-Acto blade was not in great shape and I had to cut with several light passes to get them straight.



The gluing process is quite simple and done with a needle (alène). First, I place the part and hold it with the needle and add a light touch of cement. The paper get soaked with glue which melt the styrene underneath and fusion with the paper. Once a end is done, I place the needle on the other end and stretch the rib to make it straight. Then I soak all the rib with glue, habitually 2 passes are enough to make it strongly bond to the styrene.



The completed result, ready to glue install. Roofwalks with be Tichy wooden ones, possibly slightly modified.



Matt

[sailormatlac]

Wayne,

Here's a comparison between a Train Miniature alternate design and Roundhouse ARA recommanded design (once modified). MDC car is slightly higher (as I said, it fit perfectly ATSF BX-11/12 cars that had a few inches more than the ARA design). They are also larger by a few inches because oof the tooling they used. Probably I'll make the cars that had no dreadnaught end to the correct wide and trim the underframe a little bit.



For the ATSF raised roof car, I decided to keep th ends attached to the roof and relocated the shortened sides lower. It makes the roof stand at 12" inches above the original car, just like the prototype. Ends won't be an exact replica, but at least, I'll save a lot of work that isn't that much rewarding in the end. This will be a straight forward kitbashing compared to the Rock Island car.



Matt

[doctorwayne]

Love the job you did on that roof, Matt.

Wayne

[sailormatlac]

Completed the Rock Island car this morning, except the doors, which were ordered and in the mail. The model isn't perfect. Particularly the roof. The thick paper was two-layer and the upper one started to peel off. I had to secure everything down with Future Wax Floor and painted everything to ensure it would be glued in paint. Next time, I'll use a one layer paper. My roof wasn't level too, you will see the running boards are like roller coaster. This is mainly due to the fact I wasn't enough careful when I installed the roof trusses. When I installed them, I didn't thought about making them exceed the sides to make room for the Murphy's panel gutter. It was adjusted later and then, the roof panels didn't sit perfectly on the trusses. Live and learn!

Gluing the weight with CA isn't always good in the long term so I also added styrene blocks to keep them in place if the glue wear off.



Brake apparatus is Tichy. I really love to install it. It's a first since I HATE doing this kind of job. Tichy parts are well designed and only take a few minute to install.



The car with roof and wire grabs.



Using thin paper, I simulated various steel plates that were on the prototype. I used a needle to puch rivets in them. Door stops were also added.



The painted car waiting its doors and decals.







The car was spotted on Montmorency Locomotive Works' yard this morning.





Here you can see, from left to right: Accurail 7 panel OSB boxcar, MDC/Roundhouse rebuilt boxcar and Train Miniature boxcar.



Enjoy!

The Santa Fe car is already under construction. It should be finished rather quickly.

Matt

[faraway]

A very good project to take models with a nice price and beef them up like a rocket into the sky.

[Puddlejumper]

Very nice work. I really enjoy watching your work progress.

dave

[Sumpter250]

Gluing the weight with CA isn't always good in the long term so I also added styrene blocks to keep them in place if the glue wear off. Matt

I have a couple of "rattlers", because of "CA failure" :o :o
I've used RTV, and may try clear Siliconized Acrylic caulk. The metal/plastic bond could be better if the adhesive remained slightly flexible. The plastic "washers" also have a tendency to break, and release the weight.

The red "bell buoy" in this picture, is a heavy, metal casting. The Siliconized Acrylic Caulk, held it securely in place, for the trailer ride to and from "Trainfest", in Milwaukee, Wi. . ( that's about a 120 mile round trip, on less than smooth roads ).
It should work for car weights