Roundhouse 0-6-0 vs DCC/Sound

[Schraddel]

@ Lutz.

From what you know about 3D printing. Do you think it would be better to make spheric rivets heads or les prototypical cylindrical rivet heads?

Huuuh, how to tell a long story in short? And this story is very off topic too.
[OT]
Here a link to the manufacturer: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://waggonfabrik.eu/">http://waggonfabrik.eu/</a><!-- m -->
Sorry in German only, but there are a lot of good mostly self explaining photos
Take a look to this first, especially to the photos of the trucks and truck details => Voith Maxima
Next is => Logbuch
scroll down to the bottom => zu den älteren Logbucheinträgen
Again scroll down to the bottom to the first article.
Scroll a little bit up, then you see the first 3-D CAD pictures of the trucks.
Scroll up to see further photos of the development, especially the trucks.

At least each of the trucks is mounted out of 122 individual parts, in words one hundred and twenty two parts.
When we made the first models for showing on Nuremberg Toy Fair and the mouldings were still in reworking process, it was decided by the owner to print the trucks in 3-D.
With all details well printed on.
So the nearly complete truck with all the details was reduced to a very few parts only. A quick way to made show models instead of pure handcrafting all the parts by scratch.



Only to show the complexty:




Somebody filmed my hands on Cologne Model Railroad Fair:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xgE5QOvM28">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xgE5QOvM28</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGc_iCigN9Q">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGc_iCigN9Q</a><!-- m -->

[/OT]

Rivets.
If they are very small it is esier to make them cylindrical. The human eye would not see the difference.
everybody who is the opinion to take a look on your self build models with a microscope

Lutz

[sailormatlac]

Lutz,
I'll rework my model to break it down in more sub-assemblies. Lot's of work, but I'm rather happy to have my architect formation to back me up.

Rivets.
If they are very small it is esier to make them cylindrical. The human eye would not see the difference.
everybody who is the opinion to take a look on your self build models with a microscope

It will makes the 3D model easier to handle to.

BTW, this locomotive is a marvelous piece of engineering.

Matt

[sailormatlac]

Some cyberscratchbuilding later, I almost completed 3D model (some light details to had). I had to fudge some details from a brass SP Southern (coal bunker doors). The rear beam and pilot are a combination of the prototype and a picture of the Quebec Harbour Commission 0-6-0. Both loco were built around the same thing, so I thought at least it was a plausible way to do it.

I now need to "cut" the model in flats. Shouldn't be too hard since I made the 3D model according to the part break down I wished (and also the orientation each part will be "printed").





The underframe is modelled after a P2K 0-8-0 tender but shortened for my needs.



I still feel the "tool" box looks awkward. According to measurement, it should be placed there. But still, looks awful on the slope. I'm not sure a real prototype would have done this. But I can't contradict picture evidence.

Matt

[sailormatlac]

Time to reactivate this project.

My modelrailroading budget shrinked radically since a few weeks, which may turn out to be a good thing. I decided to start doing this project using pieces available in the junk box. The brass parts list was going to be quite pricey and I didn't feel like dumping over 100$ of brass part on a standard line Bachmann 0-6-0. That said, this model in DCC version has great running performances at slow speed, making it a interesting switching engine. Honestly, don't judge it by the outdated shell, because the drive under has more in common with the Consolidation.

Anyway, I decided to reuse parts from my other Bachmann bashes, including a consolidation cab and a few details from the mogul. I'm following CNR O-12-a class as prototype. I first removed all the cast on details, cut the ugly USRA cab (it may be my personnal opinion, but people at USRA had no taste when they design these diminutive cabs) and shortened the boiler.



At some point, I had to decide if I wanted to relocate the running board to follow the prototype. It would have meant a lot of work on the boiler, the kind I didn't want to tackle. Also, I didn't put a twin air pump since I only had one on hand. Except that, I'm trying to follow closely the prototype. Most original plastic details like the bell were salvaged and reworked. The plastic whistle was transformed into a pop valve.

You'll see large copper rods inserted into the cylinders. The plastic bracket snapped while handling the drive, so I replaced it with something more sturdy.







Overall, I think the general silhouette is relatively close enough to the prototype. The new cab really help to give a bulky look to this switcher.

I need to complete the air lines, the water feeder and reinstall new LED.

Also, if anybody have an idea how to replace the non-working front couplet with a real one without butchering completely the pilot, let me know.

The tender will probably be built from scratch with power pickups. Bachmann tender is crap and not worth reworking. I'm also thinking about putting the decoder into the tender and use a sound decoder. That would free some space in the boilet to put more weight.

I hope to complete this project by Xmas.

Honestly, I think this cheap locomotive is a good start for kitbashing. Well worth the money and you get a nicely detailled and smooth drive.

Matt

[sailormatlac]

I decided to hack and saw the Bachmann tender. Just like that crappy TV I watched last week, found out it was rather good and to not just a book by its cover!



I found out I could shorten the tender to fit the prototype dimensions without issue. Details like headlight, handrails, doors, water valve and water hatch were salvage for later.

This afternoon, I worked on the electric wiring for over 5 hours with a fellow club member. After a few trials and errors, we decided to use IDE connectors.Tender trucks were replaced with MDC archbar trucks with all-wheel electrical pickup using the classic Kadee spring trick.





Connection between tender and locomotive is made using IDE connector from defunct computer parts. These connector are heavy-duty compared to cheap sockets habitually implemented on steam locomotives.



The wires connected with the tender will then run under the locomotive cab just like real water hoses making them working details.





The rear dummy headlight was drilled and fitter with a LED.



The same thing was done with the front headlight. However, the LED is pinned directly into a IDE socket to make shell disassembly front the drive easier in the future.



I plan replacing the decoder with a N scale NCE one located in the boiler. Sound may wait until 2013.

Now the fun part start with only detailling, painting and weathering left to be done!

Matt

[sailormatlac]

I completed the tender during the week-end. Another step toward completion!

Question: I'd like to know how to replace efficiently a dummy coupler on the front pilot. Space is at premium at best on this locomotive. Any idea?

Matt

[doctorwayne]

If space is really tight, I use whichever Kadee has a long enough shank, and simply cut off the mounting boss. You then need to drill the shank for a #90 screw, and, of course, drill and tap the pilot beam. It won't be self-centering, but the real ones aren't either.

Wayne

[Sumpter250]

Rivet Detail:
Micromark # 84985 HO Scale Surface Rivet Decals ( #84987 are the O scale version ). Yes!, they are raised rivet heads on decal film, already lined up and spaced appropriately. I'm thinking that the O scale sheets could be used for HO scale Bolt Heads, but would have to try it before recommending that usage.

I haven't had the opportunity to try these myself, but I have seen how they turn out, and I am impressed.
If you haven't tried these before, this might be a good time, and project. As with any new technique / product, I highly recommend spending the time and the extra cash to "play" with the product, before using it on the model. Pay attention to how well they stand up to "handling" after the paint has dried. I would suspect they would be very delicate before.

[sailormatlac]

Thanks Wayne. You confirm my doubts. I'll have to give up about the self centering coupler... I hope it won't be a bother with a switcher. Your method is the same Jeffrey used on his own 0-6-0.

Sumpter: I used Archer Rivets, HO scale. Indeed, before paint, they are a little bit fragile, but still hold on enough. However, most modifications were done when I applied them. Very nice product. Very easy to apply and they set very nicely on the model. They may be a little bit pricey, but you get what you paid for. I also tried the threaded plate pattern and was very satisfied.

BTW, I should have some pictures posted soon when everything will be primed black. I really enjoy this project so far. I learned a lot from my previous steam locomotive bashes and feel like I know a little bit more what I'm doing. It's fun to think you can take a toy and turn it into something almost prototypical.

Matt

[Schraddel]

I'll have to give up about the self centering coupler... I hope it won't be a bother with a switcher.

Hello Matt!
Why giving up? A switcher without full working front and rear couplers is not a switcher.
I have studied your picture of the Bachmann front end. It seems to that there is only a small, narrow and thin "buffer beam holder" instead of an real frame extension. And it is exactly on the space placed were a coupler box should be.
I have also studied my 0-6-0 P2K and a brass 0-8-0 on the front end and did some photos:




This is the P2k front end. The frame extension is much wider and contains the integrated coupler box.


The same from underneath.
Left a brass 0-8-0 which i have equipped with a original Kadee coupler box. When you use a Kadee whisker coupler, there is no need to have th full coupler box. You can cut off the rear portion behind the pivot and shorten it in this manner.


This photo shows the more prototypical front ent of the model.
What is done here in brass can also be done in plastic.
My suggestion:
First, don't cut this Bachmann buffer beam holder. It will hold the buffer beam inn the correct place.
Build the two frame extensions out of 1,5mm styrene sheet, according to prototype photos.
Glue them into place, make an strong connection. The frame extensions can go beneath the cylinder block adding extra strength as pictured on the photo.
Then butcher the "holder" until you have enough room for the coupler box.
Glue coupler box into place, it may be useful to have it shortened.

My 2 Cents.

Lutz

[doctorwayne]

Lutz is right; that loco should have a more substantial frame extending right out to the pilot, and you should be able to easily include the draught gear for a full working coupler.

Wayne

[Sumpter250]

A locomotive frame does extend to, and should be modeled as extending to, the pilot beam. Depending on the type of coupler box you use, you may have to do a little "minor surgery" to it to fit it in, but it is worth the effort, to have a centering coupler on the pilot.
This is the brass frame for my 2-4-2 built from an MDC 0-6-0. The pilot deck is covering the frame / pilot beam joint, but there is room for a coupler box, and "centering" coupler, between the frame pieces.
   

[sailormatlac]

Thank you everybody! I'm glad I waited a little bit before moving on.

@Lutz: I gave some thoughts about your suggestion and everything worked fine. The pilot beam is actually glued on the frame. I had to cut the small platic tab to make room for the coupler box. Then I hollowed the front pilot to insert the coupler box. Everything was glued back to the locomotive frame using styrene sheets. All in all, it was a very easy modification that took about 40 minutes to complete. And which will make operation a lot easier.

I'll post some pictures later... I "should" be able to complete the detailling by the end of the week.

Matt

[sailormatlac]

Some updates:

The tender is now complete (almost!):

The rounded corner where shimmed with styrene sheets to make square corner as per prototype.




The coal load is Bachmann Consolidation part fitted to my new tender coal bunker:



The completed tender, most detail parts are reworked from the original shell (water valve, headlight, handrail post, water hatch).






Matt

[sailormatlac]

The front pilot:

The pilot isn't actually glued to the frame because I need to detail it more with handrail, lift bar and hoses. Some sanding will be needed too. I followed my P2K 0-8-0 to model the new frame.

The new coupler box sit on top of the original pilot frame. You get the correct coupler height.





The original cylinder frame supporting the boiler was notched. It helps to keep the new pilot in exact position.



The switcher coupled with an Accurail 40' gondola.



Hope it may helps other people wanting to upgrade this little engine.

Matt