"PistonBroke" a Computer Controlled Layout - Printable Version

+- (https://bigbluetrains.com)
+-- Forum: Branchline (https://bigbluetrains.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=45)
+--- Forum: Layouts (https://bigbluetrains.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=46)
+--- Thread: "PistonBroke" a Computer Controlled Layout (/showthread.php?tid=9773)

"PistonBroke" a Computer Controlled Layout - OBJack - 08-21-2023

Hi everyone, I will again try to explain how I set-up my layout to be controlled by a computer.

I couldn't really find a suitable part of the forum that dealt with this sort of topic so...... here we are.  Icon_cool

I started to do this on the PistonBroke Thread but will now start separate thread here for those who are curious



So I will attempt to copy and Paste the relevant posts from the other thread to refresh and start again and see how we go

 

This new layout will be using a computer to control it (when I call it into action) with the "Train Controller" ®  programme by Freiwald Software
Here is a PDF of the computer drawing of my layout done with the "Train Controller" software
Which is a very simple exercise, just using the mouse as a pencil .

   



Seeing as I was thinking that I wanted to mainly try and run trains with a computer controlling all turnouts timetables and schedules, I tried to keep the layout as level as possible to maximise my grossly inadequate track laying skills, and minimise any future problems. However I do have one line over a tunnel on the layout so as a quick turnaround run is achievable. This meant gouging out two rights of way into my foam baseboard to give the required clearance.



      
and
        
The Set-up


When using these computer programmes fun facts are easy to come by ........ if I can just find where to look!!
eg: There are 77 turnouts,
     4 of which are double slips,
     1x3 way turnout
     33 left hand turnouts
     and 37 turnouts are Right hand.
With a few more to add, about 3 I think.
I drive them all with Tortoise switch machines connected to DCC Specialties Wabbit Feedback stationary decoders.
I don't have the feedback component connected yet.


   
Moved Wabbit decoders out from under for accessibility 
   
   


each Turnout will be able to be switched from the side of the layout via a momentary on toggle switch, as well as by the throttle and computer ......... eventually.
Below is my crude attempt to make a switchboard with these toggles switches in a busy area of the layout.


   


But they will mainly be just on the side of the layout near the turnout, like this.
       
The layout is divided into 75 blocks, for detecting where the trains are at any given time. .....Hopefully...... 
These 2 DR4088's are some of the Block detection modules
   
You just keep adding them in series to increase the number of sections that you need feed back from 
      
and 5 reverse loops.
 Each Reverse loop is controlled by a DCC Specialties "PSX-AR Power Shield Auto Reverser/circuit breaker"
       
I know this is not a huge layout compared to some I have seen on the internet in American Basements but I think this will take me more than my lifetime to complete.
Happy days for my kids when the time comes to clean up Pops mess when I depart.   null 
I have a Lenz LVZ100 Controller from my old layout, but I was intrigued by the Digikeijs "DR5000" controller as it has the ability to connect to either Lenz/Rocco (Expressnet System) or the Loconet System, all the while being able to just use a USB to connect to your computer and relay any system Info. to the programme.
Seems like all the magic in one box. 
I bought one, so we will see.  Icon_e_biggrin
Here we go this is the Brains. 
   
    
I have no idea why I am embarking on this tech Mission, as I would be the least Computer literate fellow around.
I guess it's the Challenge. ...... Wait. Wut. did I just say that!   Icon_rolleyes
But I have started, and I am enjoying the journey, so I guess that's all that matters.


Cheers,   219  Jack

LIFE....

..... Abandon the search for truth  

Look for a good fantasy

RE: "PistonBroke" a Computer Controlled Layout - OBJack - 09-01-2024

Continuing this thread,....  to me, one of the interesting aspects of  "Train Controller" (TC)  as a system is, I can now run run prototypical, or any other, operations on the layout without other operators. As due to my relative isolation there are no like minded enthusiasts close by.
This is now easy, as I have set up my ordinary DCC layout with off the shelf software. With the click of a few buttons I can send pre-staged trains to any desired location on my layout ready for for further instructions, or shunting.
TC also has an add-on called "SmartHand" which runs over an IP server that you then use with your wi-fi to control trains or virtual control panels.  Eek  Controlling your trains, or a friend's layout over the internet. I do have SmartHand but have not explored that side of it so much...... yet.

DCC is prevalent own many layouts now, which allows us to run many trains on our layouts at the same time without complex wiring (in some cases). However I find most can only monitor a couple of trains (with me it's only one). Switching signals, turnouts, and uncoupling trains is no easier because of DCC, then add complex routes and operations for trains in an operating session and my head explodes. You can all guess from previous posts I am not an RR engineer/operator, nor have I worked anywhere near a RR. The closest I come is that I have a basic understanding of diesel engines, Icon_e_biggrin so I like to see trains run, stop at signals, take routes to Industries etc involving complex operations.

TC system allows for five different driving modes.
1  Trains are controlled completely by TC software via the computer.
2  TC takes control only when approaching a caution aspect signal or a restricted speed scenario
3  TC takes control when a red or danger signal is approached 
4  You have complete manual control, but TC will conduct an emergency stop if the operator fails to stop the train if it is approaching a red or danger signal
5  You have complete manual control.

So you can give the "Train Controller" software on your computer, complete control over your layout or none whatsoever.

Next I will tell you the steps you need to do to get started.

Jack  219

RE: "PistonBroke" a Computer Controlled Layout - jim currie - 09-01-2024

neat but way over my head i still run dc.
jim

RE: "PistonBroke" a Computer Controlled Layout - BR60103 - 09-02-2024

Jack: my rule is one train per brain.

Many decades ago, our local importer came back from a show where Hornby were showing off their new Zero-One system. He reported on the number of crashes that their experienced demonstrator had in a few minutes.

RE: "PistonBroke" a Computer Controlled Layout - OBJack - 09-02-2024

(09-01-2024, 11:39 PM)jim currie Wrote: neat but way over my head i still run dc.
jim

Hey Jim, I was thinking exactly that about DCC when I first started, and back then I never even thought about software to run the layout, but google and YouTube are a curse if I'm exploring ways to do stuff because I tend to go deeper and deeper down these rabbit holes....  just to see if I can!! But the reverse is, they are also a wonderful resource for me and have enabled me to spend time (which I have plenty of now) to nut stuff out. And I 'aint no Einstein so I need time.  Icon_e_geek

RE: "PistonBroke" a Computer Controlled Layout - OBJack - 09-03-2024

(09-02-2024, 07:01 PM)BR60103 Wrote: Jack: my rule is one train per brain.

Many decades ago, our local importer came back from a show where Hornby were showing off their new Zero-One system.  He reported on the number of crashes that their experienced demonstrator had in a few minutes.

Yep David, and even then I get flustered if the route is a little complex,  ie: not in a straight line.  Icon_e_smile

Obviously if we run our DCC layout by computer we will need software, there are a few different ones floating around now, but I decided on one called  "Train Controller"
So I bought, downloaded and installed it on my computer.
Fairly straightforward, as any install, just follow instructions. 
The software works with nearly all types of DCC system controllers, even if you have different system protocols on the same layout. ie: XPressNet system which includes Lenz products etc, or Loconet system that includes say Digitrax products.
Upshot is no matter what brand name you use to control your DCC trains, this software will accommodate it. And all systems have the required modules to to make this happen.  Icon_cool

Ok, if we are to control our trains with software we need to be able to make things happen with a switch, that is signals, turnouts, lights etc. Anything you want to control will need to work with by an electrical switch, and the software needs to be able to see where each train is one the layout. That's it!!

For the software to see where each train is (occupancy detection) all that you have to do is isolate your layout into sections or blocks with insulated joiners. I made most of my blocks a bit longer than my longest  train. Then the drop down wire that powers the block is run through an occupancy detection module before going back to your DCC Command Station. Each of the off the shelf modules I use, can electrically detect occupancy of up to 16 different blocks, and that happens when current is being drawn from a block by an engine.

Simple wiring of the modules into the Layout. They can be added in series to monitor up to 250 blocks. (any more is another story for another time)
   

For the turnouts I used Tortoise turnout motors and Peco electro frog turnouts. They are also electrically connected to the bus with wabbit decoders.
As seen here, with the wabbits on the left.
   

Signals also go through a switch module. 
   

And layout lights, same module different setup is all
   

Everything goes back to the Bus and so to the controller. (I don't think mine is in production any more)  Icon_rolleyes
   

Then the controller is connected to the computer with a USB to complete the loop.

Simply the end result is:
We have any DCC layout
We use insulated joiners to divide layout into blocks
Each block is connected to an occupancy detecting module.
Every turnout is switched by an electric motor (Tortoise) controlled by a module (Wabbit)
All signals are controlled by a simple switch module.
All other special layout effects  eg: building lighting, is run through the same simple on/off switch module.
 Now you are done!!

A Free testing of the software can be downloaded here.  (I think.  Icon_question ) There are restrictions but it may give you a bit of an idea of the possibilities

Next we will set-up to run the layout from the computer.

Jack   219

RE: "PistonBroke" a Computer Controlled Layout - jim currie - 09-03-2024

(09-02-2024, 09:36 PM)OBJack Wrote:
(09-01-2024, 11:39 PM)jim currie Wrote: neat but way over my head i still run dc.
jim

Hey Jim, I was thinking exactly that about DCC when I first started, and back then I never even thought about software to run the layout, but google and YouTube are a curse if I'm exploring ways to do stuff because I tend to go deeper and deeper down these rabbit holes....  just to see if I can!! But the reverse is, they are also a wonderful resource for me and have enabled me to spend time (which I have plenty of now) to nut stuff out. And I 'aint no Einstein so I need time.  Icon_e_geek

jack when I went to tech school, they were still teaching tubes I did get a rudimentary understanding of transistor's when I did a joy class about remote control then the mine closed so I never got to apply it, so the old rusty noggin lost it.
Jim

RE: "PistonBroke" a Computer Controlled Layout - OBJack - 09-04-2024

(09-03-2024, 07:38 PM)jim currie Wrote: jack when I went to tech school, they were still teaching tubes I did get a rudimentary understanding of transistor's when I did a joy class about remote control then the mine closed so I never got to apply it, so the old rusty noggin lost it.
Jim

Icon_e_biggrin  You are still way ahead of me Jim .... although I do have a Rusty Noggin .... I just rely on the software to do everything for me, no electronic knowledge at all, I search Google, follow Youtube "experts" or, as a last resort, read the instructions on installation.

Jack  219

RE: "PistonBroke" a Computer Controlled Layout - OBJack - 09-05-2024

Ok so I said that I would show you what steps need to be taken to set-up Traincontroller to run some trains.

The software runs on a PC, and it doesn't need much memory or computing power. Not designed for Apple OS.

Firstly we need to draw our Layout in the software, and that my friends is easier than me trying to do a video to paste in here.

When the programme opens in a new page for your layout all the necessary tools are there to begin drawing your masterpiece

It is so much simpler than using something like Xtrakcad or other designing software.

In Edit mode: Just use the pencil and draw.
   

The Turnouts are added automatically when lines intersect.
   

Once done drawing, then the fun begins

  1. All your turnouts will now need to have their DCC address entered into the software. Again, a simple process.
  2. Anyone who uses DCC will already be familiar with using an address for mobile or stationary objects on their layout.
  3. Then in the software, you draw the Blocks with the block drawing tool. Simply click on the block icon and place on the diagram!! 
  4. The only thing needed to create a block on the physical layout is to have insulated joiners either end.
  5. in the software you can now double click on these blocks to then add the address and all sorts of info to help the software control your trains.
  6. The Block address will be determined by the type of occupancy detector module you use, and how it says to programme the address of each connection in
           Remember I use one of these, A Digikeijs DR4088 and the install instructions tell you how to programme the addresses in.
                     
It really is an easy process for adding the addresses into the layout you have just drawn in the software.
You have already done the hard part, when you initially programmed the address into the stationary or mobile (engines) decoder on installation.

I think I posted this link in The New PistonBroke thread but I will post again here, because this dude knows his stuff, and to keep it all under the same roof.

https://youtu.be/0mwh5cn3Cfc?t=191

Jack  219

RE: "PistonBroke" a Computer Controlled Layout - OBJack - 10-02-2024

Let's continue with the explanation of how I computerised my layout.

Refresh.

As said before if you already have a DCC layout you are nearly there.

Then, the minimal requirements are having electronically controlled turnouts that you can control with your throttle, and that the layout has insulated blocks.

The command station is connected to the computer via a USB

The TC computer software is expensive!! (Well I think so anyway).
It is however crazily powerful.

There are three versions, being from Bronze to Silver and then Gold being the top, each one offering a bit more than the other. 
Software installed.....

last post I showed how easy it was to draw the layout. Just click and drag.
Below is the screenshot of all the tools (along the top) that you can use to help with that task.
Note that the screenshot below already has the blocks drawn in.

                   

Once done, I now have a Switchboard with with my layout displayed

Blocks now need to be drawn in between the insulated joiners.

Once again a click and drag operation.
Click on the block icon and then click on the diagram where you want the block to be.

   

Then edit the block to give it a name, and an address from the occupancy detection module, and add other parameters.

   

Once again we just clicked on the block and it opens a window to start the edit.

Showing below is the next tab along in the dialogue box.. "Block editor" here you can define the stopping and ramping distances within that block. Amongst other things!!


   
See this video by Rudy 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NL83s4a6Hic

Each engine also needs to have its DCC address entered into the software.
Which is also simple.

In edit mode click on "create engine"
and Voila.  A new window opens for you to edit with a generic picture of a steam train. (later if you wish, you can take a photo of your own locos and insert here into the software) 
   

 Then enter its DCC address.
   

Now the track plan is defined and all the electrically isolated blocks have been added, we have a switchboard within Train Controller.
We have a loco with its DCC address entered into the software.
I am now ready to rock and roll.
It also enables me to decide how I want to run my layout.
TC is very clever, it calculates the route between the start and destination blocks, and applies collision avoidance measures, such as locking turnouts once a route is defined and prevents other trains entering until the on-route train has passed.

Train Operations:
Already I can run trains, with collision avoidance, and a few of them are Automated completely. But all need a defined track diagram with DCC addresses entered for turnouts and blocks with feedback sensors, within TC.

More Soon.
Any questions from the floor so far?

Jack  219

RE: "PistonBroke" a Computer Controlled Layout - hillyard999 - 10-03-2024

Jack,
Even though DCC is beyond my skill level, this is a well done presentation.
I am impressed with the neatness of your under-layout wiring.
I have seen some other layouts with a nightmare underneath.
Thnx for sharing!