05-29-2010, 06:18 PM
Several years ago, on another forum, someone started a post stating that "NS was working a deal with local police agencies to get them to enforce trespassing laws on the railroad. From that statement it snowballed and there was all kinds of crazy stuff being posted. I decided to step in and explain the facts of life to them. Here' in my posting. The subject is in quotes, followed by my reply:
Gentlemen;
I have read with interest the correspondence regarding the introduction of legislation to make "trespassing on railroad property a crime". Please allow me to address this issue from a different standpoint. I am a Norfolk Southern Police Officer. I was a Conrail Police Officer for 25 years before NS. I have seen no change in the railroads' position on trespassing. Conrail did not allow it, NS does not allow it. Here in the northeast the function and purpose of the police department has not changed. Conrail Police ejected trespassers just as NS Police do.
1. As for "empowering the local cops to arrest anyone on railroad property for any reason...."
Folks, the local police already have that authority. It's their jurisdiction, they can arrest any violator they
encounter. They do not need the railroads permission to do so.
2. You were told they are going to "sweeten the idea by having the local jurisdictions get back a share
of the fines......". They already get the fine. The railroad is a private corporation and does not have the
authority to collect fines for violations of state laws. When a violator is cited the local magistrate handles
the case just like a traffic ticket. If the person is found guilty the fine goes to the court. From there it's
divided between the state and the local municipality. The railroad gets nothing from the fines or
court costs.
3. As for "railfaning being recognized as a sport....", don't hold your breath. Even if it were to be
recognized as a sport the railroad companies would still have the right to disallow trespassing. How 'bout
I bring the Mighty-Might football league over and we start playing our games in your front yard every Friday
afternoon? NO? Hummm, wonder why?
4. "the railroad benefits from expert visitors.......". Who made you an expert? Have you ever attended a
single day of mandatory railroad safety training? How about track geometry training, mechanical or
C&S training? Do you have the latest, up to date bulletin in your hands? Have you been notified of any
special orders or moves that day? Division notice? Are you wearing the required safety shoes, glasses,
hard hat? What about the orange safety vest? Do you have two way communication with trains and the
dispatcher?
5. "permits or exemptions for railfans...." How much are you willing to pay for these permits? The
railroad companies do not exist to serve railfans. They are in the business of moving this countries
freight and goods to where they are needed. If they were to issue permits they wound have to hire who
knows how many employees to do the paperwork for these permits. Each railfan would have to carry
their own insurance before they would be allowed anywhere near the property. A contractor has to carry
over three million $$$$ of insurance before he can enter railroad property (plus attend railroad safety
training, as mentioned above) to do a job. How much insurance do you have?
And what about liability? Signing a waiver means nothing. When your dead you family can still sue. They
didn't sign any waiver. They want compensated for your loss. And what about the train crew? You think
your waiver makes them feel any better about running you over? Is your estate going to pay for their
counseling? Some trainmen never recover from seeing another human being killed or seriously injured
right in front of them and they could do nothing to prevent it. Some trainmen have ended up divorced
because of not being able to handle the thought that "they killed someone". It's not their fault....but tell
that to your conscious!
6. "The tragedy of Sept. 11" really has little to do with this issue. Yes, security has been beefed up some.
The entire country has beefed up security. So what. The incident on Sept. 11 is simply another reason
along with those that had always existed, to tighten security at all of our industries. For your information,
since 9/11, railroad police officers have been instrumental in the apprehension of three persons known
to have ties to terrorist organizations who were "trespassing". One was a supposed railfan, complete
with camera and scanner. He also had detailed diagrams of two major railroad bridges on the east
coast. All were turned over to the FBI.
Gentlemen, there are limits that we must abide by. There are thousands of good locations were railfans can take their photos, watch trains, etc, without trespassing. There are railfan weekends that the railroads (even NS) participate in. You have rail excursions and tourist railroads you can ride and photograph. Take advantage of these opportunities.
One thing about railfans is that, unlike the general public, they already know they are not supposed to trespass. Most non-railfans don't know any better. Railroad property is vast and we just can't keep up with the NO TRESPASSING signs. They disappear as fast as we can put them up. And believe it or not, many are removed by railfans. Metal signs end up in a railfans "collection". Paper signs just get torn down and thrown away. And when an NS police officer encounters a trespasser they are issued a warning if it's a first offense. Second and subsequent offenses are cited as a matter of policy. Other railroads are no different. Don't you think the heads of these police departments all get together and discuss this stuff? They come up with guidelines for all railroads and work together toward a common goal: keeping employees and the public safe.
Railroad property is PRIVATE PROPERTY. It's not for walking your dog, riding an ATV, bicycles, jogging, hunting or fishing (and they DO get arrested same as anyone else), driving your car or railfaning. Please save yourself some headache and obey the law.
Thanks,
Kevin
Gentlemen;
I have read with interest the correspondence regarding the introduction of legislation to make "trespassing on railroad property a crime". Please allow me to address this issue from a different standpoint. I am a Norfolk Southern Police Officer. I was a Conrail Police Officer for 25 years before NS. I have seen no change in the railroads' position on trespassing. Conrail did not allow it, NS does not allow it. Here in the northeast the function and purpose of the police department has not changed. Conrail Police ejected trespassers just as NS Police do.
1. As for "empowering the local cops to arrest anyone on railroad property for any reason...."
Folks, the local police already have that authority. It's their jurisdiction, they can arrest any violator they
encounter. They do not need the railroads permission to do so.
2. You were told they are going to "sweeten the idea by having the local jurisdictions get back a share
of the fines......". They already get the fine. The railroad is a private corporation and does not have the
authority to collect fines for violations of state laws. When a violator is cited the local magistrate handles
the case just like a traffic ticket. If the person is found guilty the fine goes to the court. From there it's
divided between the state and the local municipality. The railroad gets nothing from the fines or
court costs.
3. As for "railfaning being recognized as a sport....", don't hold your breath. Even if it were to be
recognized as a sport the railroad companies would still have the right to disallow trespassing. How 'bout
I bring the Mighty-Might football league over and we start playing our games in your front yard every Friday
afternoon? NO? Hummm, wonder why?
4. "the railroad benefits from expert visitors.......". Who made you an expert? Have you ever attended a
single day of mandatory railroad safety training? How about track geometry training, mechanical or
C&S training? Do you have the latest, up to date bulletin in your hands? Have you been notified of any
special orders or moves that day? Division notice? Are you wearing the required safety shoes, glasses,
hard hat? What about the orange safety vest? Do you have two way communication with trains and the
dispatcher?
5. "permits or exemptions for railfans...." How much are you willing to pay for these permits? The
railroad companies do not exist to serve railfans. They are in the business of moving this countries
freight and goods to where they are needed. If they were to issue permits they wound have to hire who
knows how many employees to do the paperwork for these permits. Each railfan would have to carry
their own insurance before they would be allowed anywhere near the property. A contractor has to carry
over three million $$$$ of insurance before he can enter railroad property (plus attend railroad safety
training, as mentioned above) to do a job. How much insurance do you have?
And what about liability? Signing a waiver means nothing. When your dead you family can still sue. They
didn't sign any waiver. They want compensated for your loss. And what about the train crew? You think
your waiver makes them feel any better about running you over? Is your estate going to pay for their
counseling? Some trainmen never recover from seeing another human being killed or seriously injured
right in front of them and they could do nothing to prevent it. Some trainmen have ended up divorced
because of not being able to handle the thought that "they killed someone". It's not their fault....but tell
that to your conscious!
6. "The tragedy of Sept. 11" really has little to do with this issue. Yes, security has been beefed up some.
The entire country has beefed up security. So what. The incident on Sept. 11 is simply another reason
along with those that had always existed, to tighten security at all of our industries. For your information,
since 9/11, railroad police officers have been instrumental in the apprehension of three persons known
to have ties to terrorist organizations who were "trespassing". One was a supposed railfan, complete
with camera and scanner. He also had detailed diagrams of two major railroad bridges on the east
coast. All were turned over to the FBI.
Gentlemen, there are limits that we must abide by. There are thousands of good locations were railfans can take their photos, watch trains, etc, without trespassing. There are railfan weekends that the railroads (even NS) participate in. You have rail excursions and tourist railroads you can ride and photograph. Take advantage of these opportunities.
One thing about railfans is that, unlike the general public, they already know they are not supposed to trespass. Most non-railfans don't know any better. Railroad property is vast and we just can't keep up with the NO TRESPASSING signs. They disappear as fast as we can put them up. And believe it or not, many are removed by railfans. Metal signs end up in a railfans "collection". Paper signs just get torn down and thrown away. And when an NS police officer encounters a trespasser they are issued a warning if it's a first offense. Second and subsequent offenses are cited as a matter of policy. Other railroads are no different. Don't you think the heads of these police departments all get together and discuss this stuff? They come up with guidelines for all railroads and work together toward a common goal: keeping employees and the public safe.
Railroad property is PRIVATE PROPERTY. It's not for walking your dog, riding an ATV, bicycles, jogging, hunting or fishing (and they DO get arrested same as anyone else), driving your car or railfaning. Please save yourself some headache and obey the law.
Thanks,
Kevin