Steam loco operation

[BR60103]

Canadian Pacific dieselized from west to east, converting one full segment at a time (not sure how big the segment was). The first desire was to get rid of steam through the rockies.
However, there were diesels all across the country through the 50s, mixed with steam. The Canadian was diesel from the start and that was 54(?). Ontario was officially converted about 1960.

[doctorwayne]

The loco shown below was retired in 1959, and put on display in a park in Alberta. In the early '70s, CN restored her for excursion service, but she also ran in regular revenue service, covering the Toronto to Niagara Falls morning passenger runs and afternoon returns on Wednesdays and Saturdays during the summer months. These trains were normally handled by RDCs. She was finally retired from this service in 1980.

Here she is on an excursion trip though Dundas, Ontario in the mid-'70s:


And being serviced near Niagara Falls, Ontario, in the days of the regular service, during the layover:






On the return trip, I recall standing in the baggage car as it "hunted" side-to-side at about 60mph, my eyes moist as she blew for the many crossings - for me, there's no more evocative sound when remembering days long past:



Here's a LINK with some more info.

Wayne

[Triplex]

Modeling the transition era, you're narrowing things down to a 10 year time frame, 1950-1960.

Depending on the road, the transition era began a lot earlier than that. Many roads were buying diesel switchers, and some streamliners, in the 1930s. Some roads (GM&O, Monon, Susquehanna, NYO&W, etc.) were completely dieselized by 1950.

Keep steam for nighttime freights and express passenger trains, but use first-generation diesel electric for daytime freights and the odd limited run. This would be typical for many roads extant in 1953.

Express passenger was usually the first to go diesel. Exceptions include N&W and GTW.

ive looked at diesels that were built in the 50's such as a few f 7/9 sd 7/9 and 24 or gp 7/9 as for rolling stock any thing that would fit in the time frame, we will need coal,box,tank and coverd hoppers.

The SD24 is the latest of those, coming in 1959.
The question is, what do you want covered hoppers for? They were common for sand and cement in the transition era. However, grain moved mainly bagged in 40' boxcars. The changeover of that traffic to 3- and 4-bay covered hoppers began in the 60s, and lasted until the 90s in some places.

[railroader9731]

Well if i take 61 or 62 as the latest i go for the yr. The hoppers would be used in grain service along with box cars, the hoppers will be the 70 ton 3 bay ps2 hopper.

[Selector]

It was the case in some instances where the railroad management wanted the corporation to look modern when visible...mostly during the day, and that would have meant that diesels were favoured for scheduled runs during the day. At night, in order to meet the obligations, steam was still running, but not so visible. This was true in the case of the CPR and its subsidiary, the Kettle Valley Railway.

-Crandell

[sgtcarl1]

U-m-m-m, I may have misunderstood, but I juat saw several 2 year-old covered hoppers on NS tracks this past weekend. If I did misunderstand, then please forgive.

[doctorwayne]

The question is, what do you want covered hoppers for? They were common for sand and cement in the transition era. However, grain moved mainly bagged in 40' boxcars. The changeover of that traffic to 3- and 4-bay covered hoppers began in the 60s, and lasted until the 90s in some places.

You're right about covered hoppers being not all that common for grain movement in the '50s, but the stuff in boxcars was usually in-bulk - that is to say, loose. Stuff like flour and sugar may have been bagged, though, and it moved in boxcars, too.

Carl, I think that Triplex is referring to the changeover from boxcars to covered hoppers lasting, in some places, into the '90s. Obviously, covered hoppers still abound.

Wayne

[nachoman]

My "1960" comment further explained:

Up to 1960, you could find examples of limited steam use in many places in the USA/Canada. Whether that be as helpers for a few weeks, diesel shortage, or shortlines/industrial railroads. You could conceivably run steam on any pre 1960 layout and offer reasoning, and the modeling police are unlikely to arrest you . Any railroad running steam (other than tourists or excursions) after 1960 is generally well documented by railfans. 1960 is a good "rule of thumb" year for when steam went from being "limited service" to "very rare". As pointed out already, the Colorado and Southern and D&RGW were using steam in Colorado. Those examples are well documented. I know some industrial railroads were using steam in the early 1960s (the lead mines in Picher OK come to mind). The Magma Arizona Railroad (short mining operation) operated steam until 1968, and the Crab Orchard and Egyptian Railway was a mostly tourist operation but used steam to haul freight until the mid 1980s.

My point is, if you want to be plausible, you can perhaps create a reasoning that a local industry kept a steam switcher going until about 1962 or 1963. But, it would be pretty far-fetched to have even a freelanced railroad running mainline steam after 1960.

[Triplex]

I know the feeling of wanting to use covered hoppers - grain service doesn't look right without them. But that's the steam era. No autoracks - autos were moved in specialized boxcars. No ISO containers. Some lines had piggyback service in the 50s, but not with the 80'+ cars we're more used to. No centerbeam flats. No high-cubes. I tend to find steam-era freight equipment less interesting, or at least less "right".

[MountainMan]

The simplest solution is to model whatever you want to and then add an excursion steam line. That way, it can be any era of steam loco you like.

[Sumpter250]

The simplest solution is to model whatever you want to and then add an excursion steam line. That way, it can be any era of steam loco you like.

Or........Have the owner of a large local industry, with a narrow gauge industrial, steam powered rail line, buy up shortlines, and operate them with rebuilt steam locos, as a subcontractor to the local class 1 roads, hauling less than carload loads in steam era equipment. Then, build and operate railfan "photo op" sites along the short line right of way, to provide a place to take great, "otherwise impossible" photos of steam era freights, for a small fee.
It helps, when the "large local industry" is an established ship yard, with all the steel working, boiler repair/building, and carpentry shops, necessary to maintain the railroads. It also helps that the owner is an avid steam fan.
OK, it's weak, but that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

[nkp_174]

To build on what Sumpter has said...

Have you ever heard of the Louisiana Eastern?
It was a gravel pit operated whom amassed a collection of 30-40 or so steam locomotives in the late 1950s. The largest power was probably his three Nickel Plate hudsons...but he had 2-8-2s, 4-6-2s, and such as well...the power came from many different railroads. Unfortunately, his untimely death in the 1960s lead to most of his collection being scrapped.

Here's an ownership bill for one of the few survivors:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://steamlocomotive.info/vownership.cfm?display=382">http://steamlocomotive.info/vownership.cfm?display=382</a><!-- m -->

Triplex, I must disagree. The cars you describe as being more interesting are really incredibly uninteresting. The pinnacle of railroad car history was right around 1900-1905: wood, composite, and steel cars in service...fabricated, pressed, and cast trucks...link & pin and Janey couplers (plus some Miller Hooks)...a variety of automatic air brakes plus some vacuum and hand brakes...electric and Pitsch Gas lights. Passenger cars development was at its apex for luxury. The passenger car industry was practically dead by 1960, and freight car variety was at an all-time low. Obviously, I must disapprove of anyone's taste which is different from mine

[MountainMan]

The simplest solution is to model whatever you want to and then add an excursion steam line. That way, it can be any era of steam loco you like.

Or........Have the owner of a large local industry, with a narrow gauge industrial, steam powered rail line, buy up shortlines, and operate them with rebuilt steam locos, as a subcontractor to the local class 1 roads, hauling less than carload loads in steam era equipment. Then, build and operate railfan "photo op" sites along the short line right of way, to provide a place to take great, "otherwise impossible" photos of steam era freights, for a small fee.
It helps, when the "large local industry" is an established ship yard, with all the steel working, boiler repair/building, and carpentry shops, necessary to maintain the railroads. It also helps that the owner is an avid steam fan.
OK, it's weak, but that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

I like it!