How to paint with the best results possible?

[Trucklover]

One safe way to remove paint from plastics is to soak the item in Purple Power, a high-strength cleaner you can find at auto parts stores. Depending on the paint, it can take anywhere from a couple of hours to a couple of days. I've never had a problem with it damaging any plastic.

It works on metal too, but of course with metal you don't have to be as careful so I generally use aviation-grade paint strippers on that. Then you're talking 15 minutes to bare metal, usually.

Thanks Dave, my dad is goes to the auto stores regularly lol so ill have him look for the stuff next time hes at one, this stuff sounds promising and sounds like it works very

Hi Josh,

The best masking tape out there is from Tamiya its low tack and comes in various widths, a tip a pro R/C car body sprayer told me was mount the body and hold it upside down so any overspray falls away from the body its a lot easier to add paint on a second coat.
With waterbased paints i always flush out the airbrush with clean water and then a little white spirit keeps the brush nice and clean.

Thanks for the tip Nick, ill have to see if i can find some over here

thanks for the tip about spraying upside down, i would have never thought of something as simple as that lol, but i would think that would pretty much eliminate the paint from bleeding under

[doctorwayne]

Deano, Todd tried PolyScale with water for thinner and told me it came out in splotches. I don't know if he tried alcohol (for thinner) or not. I know if I messed up a batch of ho paint jobs I would probably use a lot of alcohol.

Charlie, it sounds to me like the paint wasnt mixed well, or perhaps Todd had some semi-hard chunks in it. :?:

I am a big advocate on cutting Polly Scale with Isopropyl Alcohol , on the other hand, our good friend Wayne swears by the use of water to cut it, i have done both with GREAT success , but i really prefer the isopropyl alcohol because of the speed in the drying process .

I do use distilled water to thin PollyScale paint, but that's for brush painting. I only spray water-based paints if there's no alternative, as I'm not impressed with their properties when sprayed by someone with my limited capabilities: the paint goes on too heavily for my tastes, although that is mostly due to my inexperience using it. For spraying, I thin it with methyl hydrate. I've found, oddly enough, that lowering the pressure when spraying PollyScale results in less clogging, but it certainly doesn't eliminate it. Most of the GERN works and the main train station in Dunnville was painted with airbrushed PollyScale, mainly because they were too big to fit into my spray booth - using Floquil would have stunk-up the whole house even more than usual. I have to admit, while I like the things that can be done with paint, painting is not one of my favourite hobby tasks.
I find that I have much better control using lacquer-based paints, but I've been using them for a long time and it's difficult to adjust for a different medium. I also find clean-up with water-based paints a real mess - I don't have a tap or sink handy, and water sprayed through the airbrush simply lays in the spray booth - at least the lacquer thinner has the decency to evaporate and get drawn away by the exhaust fan.

Wayne

[nachoman]

I agree with Wayne wholeheartedly here. While I have sprayed with water based paints with some success, and while I know others have had great success, I greatly prefer spraying with an oil or lacquer based paint. I live in an area of good weather and acceptable temperature, so i do all my painting outdoors. But i also live in an area of extreme dryness, and the water based paints either dry before they leave the airbrush, or is mostly dry by the time it hits the model, leaving a rough blotchy surface. If I do spray any water based paint, the airbrush gets cleaned with acetone after each color.

[doctorwayne]

If you plan your painting carefully, there's little or no need to clean it between colours, although that does depend on what you're painting and the colours involved.
I almost never use a colour straight from the bottle - of course it needs to be thinned for spraying, but I usually add some other colours to the mix, too. For instance, if I'm painting box cars (in my chosen era, almost all were "boxcar red"), I'll add a little red or orange, or maybe some zinc chromate primer, or perhaps some brown or black to the out-of-the-bottle boxcar red. After I've painted a few cars (or sometimes after only one - the B&O, for instance, used an especially reddish boxcar red, so I'd paint that car first with a colour that I think is appropriate. The next five cars might be for NYC, which favoured a more brownish shade - add some brown or black to the mix, then carry on.) I use a Paasche VL, double-action brush, and use the paint cup only for spraying thinner through the brush at the end of a painting session. I discovered early on that PollyS, PollyScale, SMP, and Floquil bottles all fit on the lid with the pick-up tube, so I clean and save these bottles as I use up the original paint from them. At any given time, I have about two dozen bottles of thinned paint available for use. If you don't have additional bottles that fit your particular airbrush, they are well worth the cost if you do any appreciable amount of airbrushing.
To switch paint colours using a double action brush, leaving the compressor running, unscrew the bottle from the cap, (with the cap still connected to the airbrush), then, before removing the bottle, lift the airbrush until the bottom of the pick-up tube is above the surface of the paint, then pull the trigger back completely without pressing down. This will allow the paint in the pick-up tube to drain back down into the bottle. Remove the bottle, hang up the brush for a second, and re-cap the bottle. If you're going to use a similar colour next, wipe the exterior of the pick-up tube with a rag, then depress the trigger to clear the brush of any colour still in it from the previous spray, then attach the next bottle of colour. Spray the first shot or two on some newspaper to let the new colour rinse away all traces of the previous paint from the interior of the brush.
A typical spray session might go like this: First, Glosscote some cars for decalling, then overspray some already-lettered cars with Dulcote. Next, paint the sides of a white MDT reefer, followed by two FGEX yellow reefers, and four PFE orange reefers. With the compressor warmed-up, a dozen boxcars are next, in varying shades of boxcar red, followed by some black hoppers and gondolas (all in varying shades of "black" - all lightened to some degree from what comes out of the bottle, and many "tinted" with other colours). When the painting is done, you can continue on with weathering, using severely thinned colours. I like to overspray most lettered cars with a colour similar to, but not exactly like, the base car colour. Do this step first (the extra thinner in the weathering paints will clean the airbrush sufficiently for most colours, although I don't spray clear finishes or light colours such as white or yellow after doing darker colours without disassembling and cleaning the airbrush - no point in pushing your luck. The rest of the weathering colours, generally, are applied in order from darkest to lightest, but you should suit this to the particular car and to the effect which you're seeking. I try to avoid overspraying weathered cars with a final flat finish, as I feel that it makes the end result too uniform. Sometimes, though, especially with chalk weathering, this is unavoidable. I recently painted, lettered, and weathered some cars, then "patched" them for re-weigh data. Since the new data was in the form of decals, I had to spray the already weathered car with a flat finish to hide the decal gloss. A little more very light weathering helped to break-up the uniformity of the finish, but I think next time that I'll mask the cars so only the new lettering will get an additional clear flat finish.
When I've finished for the session, I dump some thinner into the colour cup, then attach it to the brush while the trigger is fully depressed and fully pulled back, shooting at least half the thinner through the brush before shutting down the compressor. The instructions that came with the airbrush suggest placing your fingertip over the needle tip while spraying the thinner, in order to force it back into the air chamber, but I have found this to cause more work once the brush is disassembled. It's also probably not too good for the seal around the needle, either.
I disconnect both ends of the hose, and hang it up, uncoiled, with both ends down - this allows any moisture to drain from the hose before your next painting session. Drain the in-line moisture trap too, if required. Remove the handle from the rear of the airbrush and set it aside.
I next re-fill the colour cup, setting it in the spray booth (I leave the fan running for an hour or two after painting), then drop the air cap, air cap body, and the tip into the cup. Next, remove the locknut and withdraw the needle from the front (spray end) of the brush - this avoids leaving paint residue in the area of the packing washer. Set it aside, then unscrew the needle adjusting sleeve and withdraw it, along with the needle support, and the spring. Set aside the the adjusting sleeve and spring, as these should not require cleaning - if they do, you need to replace the needle packing washer. Lift out the finger lever assembly and set it aside.
Take a pipe cleaner, dip the tip in the thinner in the colour cup, then feed it through (from the rear) the needle passage in the airbrush body shell. Next, feed it through the paint passage of the body shell, starting from the lower end - it will curve and exit from the front of the needle passage - again, pull it through completely. Use a clean rag to wipe off the exterior of the shell, then set it aside. Dip the pipe cleaner into the thinner again, then feed it through the needle support, starting at the front and drawing it through completely. Use it, or a rag, to wipe the rocker assembly if necessary. I keep several cans of lacquer thinner handy, each one for a specific use only. Using the one marked "Cleaner", I dip one end, then the other, of the needle into the can, then wipe it with a clean rag, then use the needle to fish the parts out of the colour cup. These need only to be wiped dry, then the airbrush is re-assembled. The slightly dirty thinner left in the colour cup is dumped into the jar that I use for styrene cement, or into the bottle for cleaning brushes -whichever needs a re-fill.
If you clean the airbrush immediately after painting (I do it even before removing masking tape from any models which I've just painted), you'll never need to spend more than a couple of minutes on this task, and your airbrush will look and perform like new.

Wayne

[steinjr]

Hope I am not perceived as trying to hijack Trucklover's thread here, but this question seemed to fit into the general theme of "how to paint with the best results possible".

I am planning to make an attempt to paint an undecorated Bachman GE 44-tonner switcher which has side railings attached and windows that seem hard to remove without resorting to brute force. This is what the engine looks like initially:



I figure the windows either has to come off or be masked in some way. Likewise for the little engineer glued into the cab behind an open window and the windshield wipers.

I also figure that the railings very easily can get way oversize of they get hit by multiple coats (primer, light color, dark color) as the engine gets spray painted or airbrushed.

What do you guys normally do with things like already installed railings and windows when priming and painting an engine?

Do this stuff basically just need to be cut loose and removed before painting, and replaced again after painting ?

Edit: I have been googling around a bit, and a now experimenting with coating windows with a thin layer of wood glue or foam tack. Initial testing show that I can get a thin "skin" of glue on the windows in less than an hour, and that this skin can be lifted of again by cutting around the window frame and gently peeling it off, with no residue on the windows. Next test: covering all windows & the headlights (prepping windows on one side of the engine at a time), and then spraying a coat of primer.

Smile,
Stein

[Russ Bellinis]

Josh, one thing that wasn't mentioned in the replies in this thread has to do with the order you paint colors. Yellow is probably the worst color for covering other colors, red is a close second. You can check this out next time you are in a hobby shop that has some factory decorated SF blue and yellow freight locomotives. Usually the cabs are painted yellow over nothing and show the correct color yellow (except for Kato which is very hit or miss on North American railroad colors). If you look at the long hood on a Gp locomotive where the Santa Fe lettering is, it will appear very greenish because the yellow doesn't cover the blue very well. I read somewhere, it may have been here, that some modelers using decals for the lettering on Santa Fe diesels will put two decals on, one over top of the other to get the blue covered.

The point of all of this rambling is that if you paint the red first, the white may appear pink. If you paint the white first as a primer, then spray the red on top, you will get a much more accurate color.

A warning on isopropyl alcohol, test it first. I've found on some water based acrylics that 70% isopropyl will actually "shock" the paint resulting in bits of sawdust like dried paint particles throughout the paint. I've heard that 90% isopropyl doesn't do this, but I don't take chances. I use denatured alcohol in gallons from Home Depot, Lowes, etc to thin water based paint. I also use it for paint stripper. Brake fluid is denatured alcohol mixed with lubricants and perhaps some additives to keep neoprene brake seals soft. The part of brake fluid that disolved the paint is the denatured alcohol and you don't need the rest of the additives that might leave a film on the model that would keep it from taking paint if you don't get it completely cleaned off.

Stein, when you paint that 44 toner, you will probably want to use Model Flex because of the flexible plastic handrails. Any other paint will probably flake off the handrails if they bend or flex. Another thing that you can use to mask the windows is the same latex modelers use to make rock molds. It will cover and seal the windows, and then peel off easily after you finish. There used to be a product on the market called "Magic Masker" that was in a jar that you painted on. It went on kind of reddish and then dried to a tan color. It was simply latex, but I haven't seen it in a while, so the company that made it may either no longer be in business or simply dropped the product.

[steinjr]

Stein, when you paint that 44 toner, you will probably want to use Model Flex because of the flexible plastic handrails. Any other paint will probably flake off the handrails if they bend or flex. Another thing that you can use to mask the windows is the same latex modelers use to make rock molds. It will cover and seal the windows, and then peel off easily after you finish. There used to be a product on the market called "Magic Masker" that was in a jar that you painted on. It went on kind of reddish and then dried to a tan color. It was simply latex, but I haven't seen it in a while, so the company that made it may either no longer be in business or simply dropped the product.

I tried to mask with wood glue, and it seems like it worked okay for protecting the windows while priming the engines - during the xmas vacation I got two engines masked and primed (with white Tamiya fine primer, since I plan to use CNW yellow as the first coat of paint, with black over that on the cab sides and roof).

My first attempt at airbrushing yellow with artists acrylics thinned with water gave a too "beady" look - I suspect both my paint mix and my technique for applying it was way off. I got impatient, and moved in too close, with what I suspect was too thin paint.

The paint only stayed on as long as it took me to carry the shells to the closest sink to rinse it right off again - I are back to just primed engines.

I'm heading over to a local hobby shop with a better selection of paints tomorrow - will see what they have. I know they have a brand of pre-thinned airbrush paint called Vallejo ModelAir, that quite a few people over here (and Pelle Søborg down in Denmark) swears by.

I'll check if they also have (or can get) Model Flex, and if they have stuff for masking windows.

I'll also try to set up a painting station in the storage shed outside our house, with a source of good light and a heater/fan to warm it up and blow most of the fumes away. It gets a little too dark and cold to do much slow and patient work outside on our porch this time of year

Thanks for the tip about the modelflex and the masking stuff !

Smile,
Stein

[LynnB]

I must say I just spent the past hour reading through this thread and the information is absolutely priceless and better than any book. What makes this better than any book you may ask ? We now have a topic that questions can be asked to those that have the experience in this field. I have more than a dozen locomotives , steam and diesel that are very good quality but need weathering along with many many rolling stock. I have a Paasche VL, double-action brush, I've used it a bit playing around painting a river bottom and shooting at an old diesel as it would go by on the rail but nothing to talk about. I'm hoping as this, let's call it a How To Paint thread grows I may take in enough to perhaps start on a box car and hopefully move onto an engine.
Thanks all you guys that are adding to this topic and especially to doctor wayne for taking time for your in depth input and please keep it coming.
Perhaps if someone just happens to be painting an engine or car they could setup a tripod and do a little documented video.

[Russ Bellinis]

I get confused sometimes concerning what I've posted where, but a friend of mine who has used Model Flex extensively discovered the hard way that when the temps drop below 60 or 70 degrees, the paint just doesn't set up. I mention this because you want to make sure your out building is well heated. I suspect that 50-60 degrees (I'm not sure what that would be in celsius-maybe +10?) right now would probably feel downright tropical in Norway this time of year.

[steinjr]

I get confused sometimes concerning what I've posted where, but a friend of mine who has used Model Flex extensively discovered the hard way that when the temps drop below 60 or 70 degrees, the paint just doesn't set up. I mention this because you want to make sure your out building is well heated. I suspect that 50-60 degrees (I'm not sure what that would be in celsius-maybe +10?) right now would probably feel downright tropical in Norway this time of year.

Ah - that is important to know - thanks for the tip! Couldn't get any Modelflex at my hobby shop either. Oh well - I guess those railings will just have to wait until spring, when we will get temperatures a little more conducive to paint drying well outside (and in the shed). Right now we are at about 23F, which is pleasantly warm for winter - I saw quite a few people not bothering to zip the jackets today.

A few days ago we were down to a slightly more chilly 5F outside. But we rarely go below 0F in this reasonably warm and sheltered corner of Norway.

When I did my military service up north of the arctic circle a few years ago (I still have two or maybe three years left in the army reserves before being transferred to the militia), we had a devil of a time with metal parts on our radio antennas breaking off when you tried to assemble or disassemble stuff in the dark at 40 below. It doesn't really matter if you measure temperatures in celsius or fahrenheit at 40 below - it is pretty much the same at that range

Anyways - thank you very much for the tip about the Modelflex.

Smile,
Stein

[Russ Bellinis]

I know what you mean about the cold. I worked with cryogenic refrigeration equipment in the Los Angeles Harbor back in the 1980's, and we had to make sure that any plumbing or fittings we used were either brass or stainless steel. If iron or steel was exposed to liquid nitrogen at -330 degrees f, you could drop the piece and watch it shatter like glass! I spent one winter in Buffalo, N.Y., one winter in Minneapolis, Minnesota, and one winter in Syracuse, N.Y. & I decided I had had enough winter for a lifetime! It was past time for this So California boy to get back to the tropics!

[Trucklover]

How in the heck did i miss replies in my OWN thread?? :oops:

I must say I just spent the past hour reading through this thread and the information is absolutely priceless and better than any book. What makes this better than any book you may ask ? We now have a topic that questions can be asked to those that have the experience in this field. I have more than a dozen locomotives , steam and diesel that are very good quality but need weathering along with many many rolling stock. I have a Paasche VL, double-action brush, I've used it a bit playing around painting a river bottom and shooting at an old diesel as it would go by on the rail but nothing to talk about. I'm hoping as this, let's call it a How To Paint thread grows I may take in enough to perhaps start on a box car and hopefully move onto an engine.
Thanks all you guys that are adding to this topic and especially to doctor wayne for taking time for your in depth input and please keep it coming.
Perhaps if someone just happens to be painting an engine or car they could setup a tripod and do a little documented video.

Lynn i agree with you 100%. This thread has been an AWESOME help and ive taken bits and pieces and pasted them into notes on a txt document for a mini tutorial when i start painting the M%ET locos

Wayne and Russ, thanks for your most recent replies, its all very valuable information and i like others appreciate it very much

Stein, dont worry about it, i started this thread to get some help, and i dont mind if others join in and ask questions too, thats part of the fun and learning

I can say that im looking forward to painting the locos for the M&ET now :mrgreen:

[tetters]

Information contained in threads like this one is priceless. I just bought a Badger 155 Anthem kit (almost 50% off!!) and I am eager to test it out before putting it to practical use. I may buy some canvas board at an art store and try doing some airbrush painting to get a feel for how the brush works. It seems though that most people have a preferred paint (oil or water based).

The only question I'd like to pose, and I may have missed it, is what is the average ratio of paint to thinning agent do you folks use? I've read everything from 1:1 to 10:1. So for MMR'ing what is generally a good starting point? For some reason 3:1 is in my head.

Oh and one thing I'd like to add for stripping paint, I've been following the CNJ Bronx Terminal Build. Tim Warris swears by Easy Off Oven cleaner for stripping paint off of models. He claims its safe to use on just about anything as it doesn't attack, brass or plastic.
http://www.bronx-terminal.com/?cat=20
Just thought I'd put that bit of info out there. Besides...I imagine a can of Easy Off easily obtainable in a pinch as most of us probably have a can of it in the house for cleaning our ovens somewhere.

[doctorwayne]

Shane, the amount of thinner recommended will vary from one manufacturer to another, so it's best, at least when starting, to follow the instructions, either on the bottle or at the company's website. Most manufacturers also recommend their own brand of thinner, but there are cheaper alternatives, as most have discovered. The manufacturer will have a recommended spraying pressure, too, which is also a good starting point.
For practicing with your airbrush, don't waste your modelling dollars on artboard or canvas: instead, pick up a few corrugated cardboard boxes at your local grocery store or supermarket, then cut them up or break them down into manageable-size panels and do your testing on the inside surfaces, where there's no printing or labels. A very useful exercise (it was mentioned in the booklet that came with my Paasche VL) is to draw a suitably-sized grid on the cardboard, using a pen or pencil, then, with the airbrush, place a dot of paint at each intersection of the lines. The object is to place the dot as precisely as possible and to make it as small as possible, with no runs and with edges that are distinct (with little peripheral spray pattern). Different brands of paints will spray differently, and variations in the paint-to-thinner ratio will also affect the results, forcing you to develop specific techniques for each situation.
When you feel that you have mastered this, the next step is to connect the dots, with lines as thin and straight as possible. While none of your modelling may ever require you to paint it with connected dots, these exercises will teach you how to control the airbrush, which will allow you to develop techniques to paint just about anything with confidence.

Before you start painting, though, there are two accessories that you should have before you start. One is a spray booth, vented to the outdoors, to cut down on dust (dry, airborne paint) and fumes. There are many available commercially, or you can make your own. This will also help to cut down on dust and paint odour in the entire house.
The second, and most important, is a two-stage respirator. These are not expensive, and most automotive supply stores or home improvement centres should stock them. A dust mask is not adequate protection, even for so-called water-based paints. And it is important to use the proper two-stage filters, too. The paper element part of these filters removes the particulate matter, mostly dried paint particles that will fill the air as you paint, while the second component, activated charcoal, removes the organic solvents from the air which you breathe. With the respirator properly adjusted on your face, you should not be able to smell any trace of any kind of solvent - if you can, correct the "fit". (To test the "fit", cover both filter canisters with the palms of your hands, then try to inhale: if you can breathe, there's a poor fit between the mask and your face. Properly fitted, blocking the intake of air through the filters should result in the rubber mask being drawn even tighter against your face, due to the partial vacuum formed when you inhale.). The disposable filters are good to use until either: breathing becomes difficult, indicating that the paper element is plugged, or, you can smell the solvents, even with the mask properly fitted - this indicates that the activated charcoal is no longer functioning properly. Discard the spent filter canisters (most are sealed units) and replace with fresh ones. With a decent spray booth, filter life is very good. I use the respirator even when spraying large items (structures, bridges, etc.) outdoors. (Incidently, it's best not to work in direct sunlight - not good for the "finish" on the paint, and you'll get strange tan lines from the respirator, too.

Wayne

[MasonJar]

Lee Valley carries a selection of cartridge respirators (do not choose anything labelled "dust mask" even if it looks like a respirator). I own the "blue" one - which is no longer available in a regular size. However, there are a few other options. Lee Valley is a great company to deal with, and will ship worldwide.

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Andrew