Staging: Think about it now or.....

[ocalicreek]

Oh, and the Galveston branch sounds like a good idea, whatever incarnation it takes!

As for your visible staging yards, it's a chance to give some corporate identity by modeling SP & SF standard trackside structures, utilities, etc. Good opportunity for research, and there are so many things you can do to give each yard a distinct 'feel', to help locate them in the operator's mind's eye.

Galen

[Gary S]

Galen, thanks for your comments. Regarding the Galveston branch, I've been thinking quite a bit. Since the layout is on 2" foam on plywood, I could actually hide the branch by cutting out the foam against the wall and have the track go into hiding with a fairly steep grade disguised by a building or trees. Now, the two inch depth would not be quite enough to hide the top of the train, but a small rise in the terrain or some buildings over the top could do that. Maybe even thick bushes or trees. Another option instead of the foam removal would be a big long building with the train sneaking into the interior like Ralph has done.

The prospects of increased operation because of the Galveston branch are very appetizing. I don't know why it didn't dawn on me sooner, but something like this should have been incorporated in my plans all along.

I've also been thinking... since the Santa Fe had a rail line to Galveston (currentlyBNSF) in my time period, I may choose another name for the branch. Maybe look at some maps of the Gulf coast south of Houston for some interesting names and locations to extend the line too.

[NJ Devils Fan]

Hey Ralph;

I love that PC transfer caboose! Is that a kit or kitbash? It reminds me of the one PC ran her on the old West Shore line through Utica. Seeing how this is exactly the kind of PC I want to model, I WILL need some of those transfer cabooses. Where can I get my hands on those?

[P5se Camelback]

Gary S. said, "... Maybe look at some maps of the Gulf coast south of Houston for some interesting names and locations to extend the line to."

Oh, yeah! Some of those large format railroad atlases are a treasure trove of info! I have two, one from 1928 and one "current" ... well it was current in 1976. I used them both to initially lay out the LS&W's route across upstate Pennsylvania. I have recently refine not so much the route, but the terrain, using Google maps. In fact, the Branch "terminal town" of Weissport was never on my original plan, but because of what I discovered about actual topography and the meanderings of the Lehigh River, it became the branch's terminus and an engine facility was added because I realized I could manipulate my living space to accomodate a section of layout with a turntable, roundhouse and all the necessary accoutrements. All I would have to do is figure out how to get from the wall where Weissport is to be out to what is essentially the center of the room. Well ... if you had a model railroad in your living room, and it had a turntable and roundhouse, wouldn't you want it to be sort of a "centerpiece?"

And all because of a couple railroad atlases and a Google map! Ain't research fun?!!! You betcha ... me, to!

[Gary S]

And GoogleMaps and Bing are some awesome research tools. It's fun to just find a rail line and then follow to see what kind of interesting stuff can be found.

[shortliner]

Gary ...
With a yard at either end of your industrial district, I believe you've got the "Beyond the Basement" interchange covered! Let's not get caught up in the "hidden" v "out in the open" debate ... the main tenet is interchange, however you choose to accomplish it. Besides, doesn't the Galveston Branch join your industrial district at or near one of the yards? Huh, huh? Of course ...! No need to try to cram track between the backdrop and the wall in "no access-land"! Keep on wiring ... you've got it all covered!

Thanks for keeping me sane, biL. I was just about to start cutting into sheetrock.

The Galveston branch could come off of one of the interchangesas you suggest. But, food for thought - on the middle wall, the "old" mainline exiting the middle yard is being converted into a long spur - was going to put a grain elevator there. It would be possible to extend that spur and let that be the Galveston branch, and just partially hide the track behind trees and houses near the peninsula. I think it would add operational interest in that any cars arriving from the SP or SF and destined for Galveston would be moved to the middle yard and held until a train was made up, then it could head off down the Galveston branch. Now, the track would only be around 12 feet long, but a fairly short train could actually travel a ways before stopping, hidden behind the houses and trees. Thinking... it isn't so much the actual Galveston branch track that appeals to me, it is the yardwork that would be necessary to assemble that train as cars came from the interchanges or from the layout industries. It just sounds like a really good idea.

Hmmm.... I could cut a hole in the wall at the peninsula per DocWayne's suggestion awhile back. Then the Galveston train could pass through the wall and "dissappear, albeit appearring on the other side... still partially hidden by trees and houses.

Gary - You can also have a short track disappearing behind trees, and still make up the Galveston job, just as you describe, then leave it on the track for departure late in the evening when you are off-shift. When you sign on again that train is now the cars that have been delivered from Galveston for sorting and forwarding to other destinations. No costly trackage, no holes in the wall, no extra turnouts and simply a short length of track needed. OTOH you could do it exactly as described, but the "re-appearing" train is now an inbound from N'Orleans or Houston.

[Gary S]

Shortliner, here are some of the options I have.

First, I could come from the middle yard and hide the track behind trees and scenery.



Or I could go through the wall, allowing the train to go out of sight of the operator - of course, it would appear on the other side - but again, the tracks could be hidden with stuff.



Lastly, I could place the branch over by the SP interchange, and put the track behind trees and building flats.



Comments?

[P5se Camelback]

Mister BiL votes for door # 3!

The space is there, it's at the end of a run, the space is at the rear of the benchwork where a (removable) structure/row of structures could be engineered to hide the staging ... it's the easiest/best spot because, deep in the dark recesses of the very back of your active, planning-it-all-out brain, you knew you were going to do this and left the room to do it!

[Russ Bellinis]

Gary, Since you are not modeling either the BNSF mainline or the SP/UP mainline, you don't really need an interchange track. In the case of the LAJ the class ones drop off the cars detstined for the LAJ in one of the LAJ yards from what would be called an interchange track, but if it isn't modeled, and the yard is used as an interchange track it works fine, since what happens is the cars from the BNSF or UP just show up in the LAJ yard. By the same token cars from the LAJ destined for either UP or BNSF are delivered to the appropriate yard by the LAJ and in effect just show up in those yards as far as those railroads are concerned. Actually, I think the LAJ cars for UP are just shoved into a mixed freight of cars originating in the LA area and sent to Colton for classification. Likewise the BNSF just puts them in a mixed freight and sends the cars they receive from LAJ to Barstow for classification.

[Gary S]

Russ, I think maybe I have been using the wrong terminology for the yards at either end of the layout. The yards are meant to be operated like the LAJ does. So would these yards not be called interchanges?

I know I've said it before, but just to make sure in my head that what I am thinking is correct - the "beyond-the-basement" concept on the layout is to be as follows: Before an op session, I place incoming cars by hand onto the two yards at the ends of the layouts. This represents the SP and the SF dropping off cars destined for the Almeda Terminal And Gulf industries. During the ops session, the cars are picked up from the yards and dropped off at their ATG destinations. Pickups at the industries are taken to the appropriate yard to begin their trip to other destinations. At the end of the op session, the cars in the yards are removed by hand from the layout. That would represent the SP and SF picking up the cars and taking them on down the line.

I also haven't considered ownership of the yards. Does the LAJ own the yards which connect to the class 1's? Joint ownership? Not that I gave it alot of thought, but in the back of my mind I must have benn thinking those yards were owned by the class 1, hence my calling them the Santa Fe and Southern Pacific yards - well, interchange yards, because it seems to me that is exactly their function - interchange between two roads.

I'd certainly appreciate any commentary on how I should be looking at these two yards.

Also I said before, I am thinking that the "Galveston branch" under consideration would certainly add to the ops. With the current scheme (no Galveston branch), I don't see any need for classification anywhere on my line. But with the new branch, there would be some car sorting to build up a train which was headed for the Gulf.

[Gary S]

Mister BiL votes for door # 3!

The space is there, it's at the end of a run, the space is at the rear of the benchwork where a (removable) structure/row of structures could be engineered to hide the staging ... it's the easiest/best spot because, deep in the dark recesses of the very back of your active, planning-it-all-out brain, you knew you were going to do this and left the room to do it!

Seems like a logical place... now, instead of the "Galveston" branch, I think I will call it the "Gulf" branch for now until I come up with a proper destination. Reason is, Galveston was already served by the class 1s... they would have no need to drop cars at the ATG to take them to Galveston. I'll find some obscure location with a cool name near the bays and coastline to serve as the destination and name of the new branch.

So.... we would have cars arriving via the SF that would need to go to the Gulf branch, and also cars from the SP too. With the SP yard right by the Gulf branch, how would we build up the Gulf train? The gulf-bound cars from the SP would be left on a track at the yard there, and the gulf-bound cars from the SF would be hauled the entire length of the layout, then a train would be formed up there and sent down the branch?

I need to learn more about how a real railroad would do this... but that info is hard to come by! And that is why I ask these questions here. My intuition tells me that placing the Gulf branch at the middle of the layout could result in more interesting operation. Cars from the SP and from the SF would be brought to Middle yard and then a train would be put together there and sent off on the branch.

Thoughts?

[Gary S]

One more thing...

Ralph, I hope that you don't mind this hi-jacking of your thread to discuss my layout! :oops:

[Ralph]

No sweat! Glad to see the thread has generated some conversation!
Ralph

[NJ Devils Fan]

I love this thread, so many interesting ideas and great options....so here's another. I like the idea of the added track by the "SP interchange". It gives a "realistic" approach to the term "interchange". It shows another track coming from "somewhere", doing something, and going back "somewhere". All the while, it seems as though the operator will be "out of the way". You also have "extra room" in that area, should you decide you need more room for future expansion. As a prototype idea - you can add another siding (to hold a engine and caboose) close by there. This is what railroads refer to as a "holdover" or "layover" track. That's where the "foreign" railroad can park their power and caboose. Sometimes, these trains "run out of time" and layover at the foreign terminal, then return the next day. Seeing how the term "interchange" involves switching, a yard (in my opinion) is where the interchanges needs to take place. This adds to the realism of the new scene. Just an idea, of course. Will this "foreign railroad" be using steam? Will a turntable be needed? Boy.......the endless options of model railroading. I love this hobby.

So, are you to be discouraged about a "flaw" in a track plan? NO!!!!!! Why? Because real railroads are always adding "new track" somewhere to accomodate work that is "new" or was "never thought of" at the time. The railroads are always growing in one way or another. (GOOD NEWS!!) So why not your railroad? No track plan is EVER perfect no matter how detailed or "thought out" it is. There is always room for change, updates or remodel.

So have fun with the "new" updates, I look forward to seeing the new "interchange". By adding updates to a layout it gives you a fresh new start and keeps your interests (and skills) ongoing.

In the end...JUST HAVE FUN WITH IT!!!!!!!!!

[Gary S]

Sorry about the delayed response. :cry:

I have been thinking alot about the Gulf branch. I am leaning towards Reinhard's suggestion of putting it behind Industrial Area 3 as in the drawing below. The idea is to have the train dissappear behind the buildings representing the trip off the layout. This would give another place for cars to leave the layout - instead of just the two yards at the end. Now, since this is just a branch that doesn't connect to any other railroads, any cars leaving on this route would also be returning on this route. In my head, this justifies some classification at middle yard - making up a train to go to the Gulf, then breaking down the train that returns.