Placing Rail Served Industries On Layout Edge

[Russ Bellinis]

Mark;

Having visited the EFRR several times over the years, I can tell you this much about the TQW warehouse. The building is constructed of what I call typical corrugated sheet metal, attached to steel H and I beams. A fairly common method of constructing large facilities like this one. When I worked for the F&C Railroad, we switched a very similar facility, the case house at Schenley Distillers that spotted 5 cars inside.
[ATTACHMENT NOT FOUND]
I want to have such a facility on the edge of my layout with a detailed interior and have been experimenting with having the track on the outside, but am now thinking more of having the track enter the building since you'd be able to see the cars spotted in the structure. The track entering the warehouse from both ends like the Effingham TQW warehouse is also an interesting feature.

Biggest problem I see with having the cars inside the structure is a practical way of uncoupling cars so that you wouldn't have to pull the whole track just to switch out one or two cars. Track magnets are out of the question (don't like them or the un-prototypical moves you often have to make when using them). I have thought about modifying a Rix uncoupling tool http://www.rixproducts.com/6280014.htm so that you could stick it inside the structure over the warehouse floor and be able to magnetically uncouple the cars. I have a couple of the Rix tools that I don't use, so may well test that idea out.

My current mockup for my warehouse has the track outside the structure which works fine except for not being to see what is spotted at the warehouse. I'm able to uncouple cars over the proposed structure which will scale about 30 feet high, with no problem. Just don't like the fact that you can't see what is spotted there.

I think that having such a structure with a detailed interior would be a nice feature on an ISL. Rolls of paper, large boxes, drums and a couple of fork lifts and personnel in the structure would really look nice.

Have you considered using electric uncouplers for your in building tracks? I was using "advance search" for Gary S' home made Kadee uncoupling electro magnets, but I didn't have any success finding what I was looking for. Gary has so many posts that if the search function doesn't find the specific post I'm looking for, I would need to search thousands of posts to find it. He had a very nice design using two kadee electrical coils for O gauge if I remember correctly. The only thing you would need to do to modify your cars is to make sure wheels and axles are non magnetic and use metals other than iron or steel for car weights.

[Brakie]

Russ wrote:Have you considered using electric uncouplers for your in building tracks? I was using "advance search" for Gary S' home made Kadee uncoupling electro magnets, but I didn't have any success finding what I was looking for. Gary has so many posts that if the search function doesn't find the specific post I'm looking for, I would need to search thousands of posts to find it. He had a very nice design using two kadee electrical coils for O gauge if I remember correctly. The only thing you would need to do to modify your cars is to make sure wheels and axles are non magnetic and use metals other than iron or steel for car weights.
-----------------------------------
Russ,Why not use delayed uncoupling? I use it a lot on some of my ISLs to cut down on the number of magnets and it works like a charm.

[Russ Bellinis]

Brakie, his problem is that he wants to be able two switch out one or two cars inside a building without having to pull the entire cut, and he can't reach the couplers with any available tool when the cars are inside the building. Do real railroads and industries do that? In every instance that I know of if an industry receives a cut of cars to load or unload, they complete the work on all of them before they pull any or receive more cars. If they receive more loads or empties than they can handle at once, the industry has a tractor, or trackmobile to shuffle the cars around. Still they complete the work on one entire cut and move it out and then bring in another cut.

[FCIN]

Brakie, his problem is that he wants to be able two switch out one or two cars inside a building without having to pull the entire cut, and he can't reach the couplers with any available tool when the cars are inside the building.

Exactly, I briefly considered the possibility of using electro-magnets, but it would require about 5 of them to be installed! My structure will hold 5-50ft cars and thus a magnet at each potential cut point and one by the entrance. I don't like the delay feature of Kadee couplers as you are making un-prototypical moves to spot a car; i.e.; spot over magnet, back up to allow couplers to move off center then shove the cars to rest, rather then just shove to rest, then uncouple.

It appears that my idea of modifying a Rix uncoupling tool http://www.rixproducts.com/6280014.htm may work quite well, although using magnets of any type will kill my plans for cutting off the trip pins from the Kadee's. I need only cut the handle off and glue it back on or add a longer handle of plastic so that I can place it inside the structure over the floor with the magnets down between the cars, bunch the slack and there you go! The depth of the structure to track center line won't be more than 3 or 4 inches at most.

Do real railroads and industries do that? In every instance that I know of if an industry receives a cut of cars to load or unload, they complete the work on all of them before they pull any or receive more cars.

They certainly do! It all depends on the facility. You can find this situation at many industries with multiple car spots, especially storage warehouses and similar facilities.

When we worked the case house at Schenley Distillers, they would usually have 5 cars spotted in the building for loading, but only have spots 1, 2 and 3 ready to pull when we arrived. We'd couple into the cut of cars, and make the cut inside the building, pull the outbounds and then spot new empties in their place. Only pulled the whole track if all the cars were billed out or we needed the last car(s) in the cut. Varied greatly from day to day. Same thing at the other distilleries and several warehouse facilities I'm familiar with.

[Russ Bellinis]

I just thought of another possible solution to your problem. What if the track was inside the building but in front of the loading dock? Your track would then be right on the edge of the bench work so you might need a small plexiglass protector to keep equipment from taking the "big fall," but you could have an open warehouse on the edge with ready access to the cut. The added advantage is that you would not be trying to fish an uncoupling tool in and around details on the warehouse floor.

[Mr Fixit]

All I plan on doing when modeling the TQW warehouse on my version of the EFRR is to only drag cuts in and out once they have all been unloaded.
Charlie Barenfanger designed it as a run through track with a run around track outside to the rear, specifically so that rail cars can be unloaded out of the weather and switching minimized.
Mark

[Brakie]

Do real railroads and industries do that? In every instance that I know of if an industry receives a cut of cars to load or unload, they complete the work on all of them before they pull any or receive more cars.
--------------------------------
Absolutely and its time consuming work especially if you have to "cherry pick" the empties and loads...It wasn't unusual to pull 3 or 4 cars to get to the 2 outbounds then there is the need to respot each car at its proper door or dock number..

A local can take up to a hour to work large industries with several spots that needs switch and cars replace.

[FCIN]

Been a while since there have been any ideas/suggestions on this thread, so thought I'd add another idea that has been tossed around by Lance Mindheim and some others. The idea of "suggested industries" placed on the front edge of the layout. Specifically; "suggesting" a large warehouse by simply modeling the loading dock between the layout edge and the industry siding. This has possibilities, but to me would not look very convincing as you aren't too likely to find a long uncovered loading dock at a warehouse or similar facility.

I threw together this diagram of how I'd model such a "suggested" industry, that to me, would look far more realistic in so far as suggesting the facility behind the loading dock:     I'd model the loading dock with a canopy over it and its support columns. Then have just the track side wall, whose main purpose would be to provide support for the back of the canopy. The entire thing would be just a tad deeper than the depth of the loading dock and the canopy would be just slightly higher than the top of a typical model box car, with the modeled structure wall just a bit higher than the canopy or perhaps level with the top of the canopy. Just something to provide support for the canopy and prevent you from damaging the canopy.

Although it wouldn't be very prototypical if the structure wall was modeled, the entire area behind the loading dock would be open, enabling you to see the cars on spot at the industry and being only about 2 inches deep, would allow you to reach over the canopy to uncouple cars. You would of course have a fork lift or two on the dock along with pallets of merchandize and a few workers to unload the cars. The view from the back of the loading dock (layout edge) might look something like this:     At the moment, I have no plans for incorporating anything like this on my own ISL, but will keep it on the back burner, just in case. You can find examples of warehouses and other industries with similar loading docks all over the country. Might be something that someone else might contemplate using on their own ISL.

[shortliner]

If you replace the rear wall with clear styrene, and add windscreen tint film to it with the windows and doorways cut out, you will have the indication of a "shadow" building being there, without blocking you view of the contents of the tracks

[Mike Kieran]

I was thinking that if you model an indoor spur and put the loading dock along the edge of the layout, you could maybe model the front wall of the industry and have it swing down for access. If it's an outdoor loading dock, just put the loading dock on the edge.

[MountainMan]

Just a rally weird thought- is it possible to uncouple from underneath?

[Mike Kieran]

Just a rally weird thought- is it possible to uncouple from underneath?

MountainMan, I'm not trying to be a wise guy. Do you mean through the track?

[MountainMan]

Just a rally weird thought- is it possible to uncouple from underneath?

MountainMan, I'm not trying to be a wise guy. Do you mean through the track?

Since the view of the coupler and trackbed is largely hidden by the unloading platform, I wondered if a small hole at a pre-determined spot would enable cars to be uncoupled from below, since uncoupling from above is pretty much out. Like I said - a weird thought.

[Justinmiller171]

Since the view of the coupler and trackbed is largely hidden by the unloading platform, I wondered if a small hole at a pre-determined spot would enable cars to be uncoupled from below, since uncoupling from above is pretty much out. Like I said - a weird thought.

http://www.the-gauge.net/forum/viewtopic...=23&t=2939

[Mike Kieran]

Good point Justin, an electromagnetic uncoupler would also work. But what if only the loading dock and canopy were modeled if the canopy was attached to a wall facade with a sprung hinge on it, you can push the wall out of the way for access.

Then again, if you just model the front wall, canopy, and loading dock, you should be able to reach over the canopy with an uncoupling pick.