A new car...

[tomustang]

If your worried about nickel and diming a chevy P/U with a 100k+ on it, don't go over to the worst japanese company Nissan. Buy a Honda if you want something more reliable.

2nd quark I have is if your truck is paid off, your nickel/dime prices will still be cheaper than having a new car payment.

Forget the union workers speech, gm workers are not like they were decades ago, they push buttons on a machine for $30/hr and get triple overtime.



I'm a Ford guy though, you can never go wrong with Ford If you're looking in the Versa I would suggest a Ford Fiesta. Check them out before you make a decision.

[nachoman]

:arrow: ... ... :!:

Don't neglect to stock up on plywood and homosote for the layout before you trade in the truck!

That's some sound advice! I formerly had to rent trucks for my job. Before I would return them, I would swing by the home depot to pick up large items. Heck, it was on my way, and didn't cost any more to either my company or the client...

[iis612]

If your worried about nickel and diming a chevy P/U with a 100k+ on it, don't go over to the worst japanese company Nissan. Buy a Honda if you want something more reliable.

2nd quark I have is if your truck is paid off, your nickel/dime prices will still be cheaper than having a new car payment.

Forget the union workers speech, gm workers are not like they were decades ago, they push buttons on a machine for $30/hr and get triple overtime.



I'm a Ford guy though, you can never go wrong with Ford If you're looking in the Versa I would suggest a Ford Fiesta. Check them out before you make a decision.

I have owned 4 fords, and 3 of them were nightmares. I had a 97 ranger. With 4000 miles on it, it spun a main bearing. Ford refused to do warranty work because I didn't have the oil change done at a ford dealership. I had a 99 taurus. With 360072 miles on it, the transmission went out. From everyone I had talked to (including Ford service techs) said that it was a common issue. Ford said, it is out of warranty, not our problem. I had an 87 mustang gt. That one had suspension issues, and electrical problems that resulted in a car fire. The only good one I had was a 91 Festiva (Built by Nissan). That was a great little car.

[iis612]

I did stock up on dimensional lumber and ply. I have enough to build 2 room size layouts. Oddly enough, it was my wife who told me "Before you trade in the truck, go stock up on whatever wood you need for your trains."

[Charlie B]

As an ex Ford parts manager. and a son that is a Ford master technician, I want to tell you that Ford is not the problem here, It is the dealerships.
My son had a customer come in that had a Ford truck with 46,000 miles that had never had an oil change and it lost a bearing. Ford told him to send an oil sample to them. They tested the sample and told him there was no problem with the oil, repair it under waranty (it was a 5/50,000).
We could, without Fords approval go as much as 500 miles above the warranty .
It is also illegal to require that the maintenance be done by the dealership, as long as it is done. We had many do-it -yourself guys.
If any dealership tries to snow you, write a letter directly to the company, but be polite and explain your problem. Keep in mind the dealership will get a copy of the letter. Most car companies will help within reason
As for the Festiva, we had an 88 that we bought new and traded it in on the 2006 Focus. We loved that car but we wore it out. It was designed by Mazda (which Ford owned) and built by Kia, (which Ford also had a big share).

[iis612]

Oh the irony. I had to park the truck out on the street for a few hours today. I went out to pull it back in the driveway, only to find the drivers door caved in. That's right, Hit and Run!! There is white paint transfer on the door and mirror. The people who live across the street have a white suv, and a teenage daughter who can not drive. She has her license, but how she got it is beyond me. I am not assigning blame, because auto manufacturers paint a lot of cars white. Basic math says that there is a direction to start looking.


Matt
(most highly angered)

[P5se Camelback]

... As for the Festiva, we had an 88 that we bought new and traded it in on the 2006 Focus. We loved that car but we wore it out. It was designed by Mazda (which Ford owned) and built by Kia, (which Ford also had a big share).

I'm a bit of a Ford guy, too.


The Festiva on the right is a "daily driver" (Fuel injection, 5-spd, shaved head, tube header exhaust, KYB 4-way adjustable stuts with 2" lowering coil over sport springs and 13x5.5" mag wheels with wide, low profile tires.) It has 235+K miles on the clock, runs like a new top and does hard corners dead flat ... almost no body roll! (just enough to pick up the inside rear tire an inch or two!) hock:

The Probe is a fix-it-up-and-sell-it, bought cheap GT, 2.2L, 5-spd, turbo, intercooler. Nice car, but soon to be gone (model railroad funding! )

The Festiva under the cover is being totally rebuilt from the shell up. It has a Mazda 121 grille, headlamps, taillamps and name badges (all imported from Europe) carbon fiber hood, custom hand laid-up (from my own molds) front fenders (a fiberglass rear hatch in in the works,) deep front fiberglass air dam. deep rear f/g valance, f/g side valences, a re-engineered shift linkage (back 9", up 12") with all new floor sheet metal to accomodate it, fully padded and upholstered racing bucket seats, a full array of mechanical gauges (and a fire extinguisher.) The body is pristine ... not a wrinkle or a wave - I did all the body work myself ... it took me months - but it is "perfect!"

The 1.3L engine has been replaced with a 1.6L unit from a Mazda 323. It has been bored 0.060 over, has 10:1 compression pistons, a shaved head, a 12 lb. flywheel, A Stage Four high performance camshaft, four-into-two-into one tubular header, a large diameter high performance exhaust system, a competition pressure plate and a sintered metallic clutch plate. All rotating parts have been balanced. The stock 1.3L put out 66 bhp ... the "worked" 1.6L is estimated at 148bhp!

There is still some work to be done before it sees the street for the first time, incuding a Metallic Charcoal paint job with two 12" wide satin silver stripes from front air dam to rear valence, but it should be an ABSOLUTE BLAST to drive.

So now you've seen my other hobby.

"Horace Dodge," my Dakota pick-up is off camera, stage left. Gotta have a truck to haul sheets of plywood and bags of mulch!

BTW, my Bro-in-Law a tremendous help in getting me the European Mazda 121 parts when Ford had him assigned to Ford of Europe and he and my sister and their family were living over there. That was maybe six or seven years ago ... he's been promoted again, he's now CFO, Ford of the Americas. Yes, we are definitely a Ford Family!

[iis612]

Interesting BiL. I had an idea once to retro-fit an AWD drive train from a suburu forester into my festiva. With the Port Fuel INjection system, and the five speed I had in it, I could smoke the tires through 2nd and most of the way through 3rd, from a dead stop. Just get the rpm's up to about 4000 and side step the clutch. That was with the stock engine. I would love to go for a ride in one of your hopped up roller skates.

Matt

[rrinker]

So what you really are, Bil, is a Mazda fan

--Randy

[P5se Camelback]

In all actuality, Randy, I'm a Mini Cooper fan ... I've owned four of them ... the original "flyin' shoebox" with the ten inch wheels. But when I first got divorced and sold off the Taurus Wagon (in an effort to regain enough cash to begin to rebuild my life and save it from swirling in ever-decreasing circles in the white porcelain convenience,) I was looking for another Mini. But a '68 Mini Cooper "S" would have cost as much as the Taurus Wagon that I had just sold cost me when it was new! [Watch the original version of "The Italian Job" with Michael Caine ... it's hilarious! And a real "cliff-hanger" of a story!]

Still wanting a small FWD car, and being a Ford guy, I found a '94 Festiva (badged as a Ford) and after "throwing" it around a couple corners, decided it was about as close as I could afford to an original Mini, at about 1/4 the price. What I ended up doing to it mechanically over the ensuing years is part of my own hot rod history. (But I've been a Front Wheel Drive devotee since 1966!)

BTW ... By "throwing" a front wheel drive car through a corner, I offer as example this photo of a friend in his SCCA ITB (Improved Touring "B") VW Golf at Turn 13 at Sebring!

Cornering on Three Wheels ... Turn 13, Sebring International Raceway, Sebring, FL

And now ... I return the thread to deciding on which car to buy ...

... look at all the vehicles that have the potential to satisfy your needs and give passing hommage to your desires, including the possibility of keeping your your current vehicle, and then decide based on the detrimental effects on your wallet.

That's my considered advice as an old gearhead.

[nachoman]

Before you buy a newer car, consider the benefits of an older car.

Today while driving home from work, my car began to surge at higher RPMs. I managed to nurse it home, and let the engine cool down for a few minutes before I tore into it. Over the next two hours, I checked to see if the fuel filter was clogged, looked at the PCV valve, checked the distributor cap and wire connections, checked the point gap, lifted the breaker plate from the distributor to make sure the advance mechanism still worked, removed and replaced the spark plugs, and replaced the fuel pump. The car was running great by 8pm. And keep in mind, that two hours included a 30-minute walk to the auto parts store to buy a new fuel pump and spark plugs. The pump cost 29 bucks. And, don't ever by Champion spark plugs. Two of them broke while trying to remove them, hence the replacements.

And perhaps I should save the story of how I replaced a head gasket in 3 hours for another time

[P5se Camelback]

Get one of those foam-cushioned spark plug sockets and you shouldn't have any more trouble with breaking the porcelain tops off the spark plugs. And that's not just a Champion problem ... any of them will break if the socket wrench hits them "funny" while removing them (or attempting to remove them.) The cushioned spark plug socket is usually the end of broken plugs. Plus the cushioned socket holds the plug, making it easier to start the threads in the hole, reducing the potential for "cross-threading."

[conrailmike]

Forget the union workers speech, gm workers are not like they were decades ago, they push buttons on a machine for $30/hr and get triple overtime.

REALLY? Wow, maybe you should go work on that line if it's so easy. Have you worked on the assembly line? Let me tell you, I do and it's not all "pushing buttons on a machine" like everyone makes it out to be. I get so sick of everyone thinking that we're just a bunch of slugs who stand around all day and make tons of money. Triple overtime? Yeah...right, maybe if you're in the skilled trades and it's a holiday. Yes, some of those jobs are good and quite easy but they're few and far between. Most of those jobs are not all that great on your body.

Let me remind everyone that the "bail outs" were loans and GM is currently paying them back.

Now, the UAW? That's a different story altogether, just a "good ol' boys club" now. Lots of people still drinking the kool-aid that they hand out. They have issues that go so deep it's not funny.

I wouldn't buy a foreign car if it was the last one on earth. Even if I didn't work for GM I'd still buy American.

My suggestion? Buy a used American car based on your budget. Hope you can find one that fits your needs.

[Russ Bellinis]

Get one of those foam-cushioned spark plug sockets and you shouldn't have any more trouble with breaking the porcelain tops off the spark plugs. And that's not just a Champion problem ... any of them will break if the socket wrench hits them "funny" while removing them (or attempting to remove them.) The cushioned spark plug socket is usually the end of broken plugs. Plus the cushioned socket holds the plug, making it easier to start the threads in the hole, reducing the potential for "cross-threading."

Don't forget to coat the threads on the plugs with Nev-R-Seize, especially when installing them in aluminum heads.

Also, I would not worry about a vehicle "nickel and diming" you just because of high mileage. As long as the body and chassis is sound (not rusted out), once you get over 100,000 miles most of the value is gone. Just keep driving it and maintaining it until something major fails. If something fails that is going to cost you way too much to fix, trade it off or just send it to the junk yard and buy another vehicle. It might well go another 100,000 miles with no more cost of operation than it had for the first 100,000.

[Squidbait]

The Versa looks to be a decent car, but nowadays I think you'll be hard put to find a true lemon... all cars, domestic and foreign, are much better than they were even 10 years ago.

That said, find the car that fits your needs and your budget. You might look at Kia/Hyundai as well. Good reliability, and don't know about down there, but up here and Canada they're both offering 0% financing.

I suspect that as you're getting older, you're less inclined to want to grab a wrench and do the shadetree mechanic schtick, and while the cost of fixing an older cheaper car may be less, the hassles of having to worry about the possibility of fixing it/actually fixing it at increasing intervals may be a detractor.

North American manufacturers have never been good at small cars. Even now, they've had to go to their European or Japanese divisions to find a good platform. The new Fiesta/Mazda 2 looks like a really nice car, but it's about $5k overpriced for what it is. I think Ford's biggest boner is in not offering the hatchback as the base model. If you're going to get a compact car, why would you want a sedan? For the same or less money you can get a Honda/Nissan/Hyundai/Kia that's not first-model-year, very reliable, and probably, as good or better-designed.

I haven't owned a big-3 product for 20 years. They never produced anything other than full-sized trucks that I considered to be well-designed and reliable. I've never been a brand-loyal-buy-it-because-it's-our-brand kind of guy. If it's good, I'll buy it. My last car was a Honda Civic, built in Alliston Ontario, by non-CAW workers. It's got 350k km on it, still gets 50 mpg, and if the previous owner had taken care of the body, I'd still be driving it.

My latest "new" ride isn't a domestic either, since nobody on this continent is building small diesels. I've wanted a TDi for a long time, and this one came along at the right price and in very good shape. With some light maintenance and tuning, I should be getting 55-65 mpg.