Scratchbuilding Advice

[nkp_174]

After two shows, one in Rockford, Il. and Trainfest, in Milwaukee, trips that my old modules made for 20 years without damage, the freight house, the coal tower, and two of the new styrene kit structures suffered fairly extensive, similar, damage. The scratchbuilt wood shed and dock, on the old modules, still "good as new" is 48 years old.
The difference? Because of the larger size ( 30" vice 24" ) of the new modules, I wasn't able to secure them in the trailer as well as I could the old ones......it's a case of, the modules were coming down, as the trailer was coming up.
The impact shock didn't care about wood, or styrene....it broke both, with equal enthusiasm.

Back in the 1990s, my local county historical society mounted a campaign to save the NYC branchline freight station. For the grand opening, my father loaned them a brass On3 caboose and a wood On3 boxcar. He was concerned about the boxcar...but it was the caboose which came home broken Evidently, it was dropped on its end resulting in the ladder being badly bent, the cupola knocked out of place, and the rear roofwalk lost.

[ocalicreek]

One more point about wood vs. styrene, if it hasn't been made yet, is that in N scale or HO at a distance (some would even say close-up too) wood grain really shouldn't be visible to remain in SCALE. However, for our eyes, we like to see texture, even if that texture is faked with paint or a decal.

Lance Mindheim recently pointed out in an article that the depth of mortar lines between cinder blocks scale down to such a small number that there's virtually no difference between modeling them with an actual gap or a photo decal and in fact the photo decal may come off as more realistic. However, our eyes don't always want realism, we want a perception of reality.

All that to say, if we broke out a laser micrometer and measured our models we'd find them to be more caricatures than miniaturized reductions of reality. Craftsman kits seem to encourage over-abuse and hyper-weathering of our models and we love how it looks (or many of us do) but it's really just a caricature of reality on so many levels.

If the model you'll build will be set at a distance, then look closely at your prototype reference shots that show the structure at that similar distance. How much wood grain can you see? Even if you model with wood, you may not need to worry about adding any distressing and graining unless it's a foreground model (or you're just obsessive about such things).

Looking forward to progress photos!

Galen

[scubadude]

Man, you guys think of EVERYTHING...I would never even think about the scale of woodgrain. Galen, didn't you bring up something on another thread sometime ago about our mind expecting to see something that we shouldn't see if it were in scale? Mch lke readng prnt lke this an stll knwing what it shuld sy evn if it wer speld incorrct? I think wood grain probably would come under that category. Even though we shouldn't be able to see it in N or HO scale, our minds expect it. Probably why I think wood looks more woody than weathered styrene.

Damn, you guys are gonna make me a rivet counter sooner or later......good stuff....

[nkp_174]

Craftsman kits seem to encourage over-abuse and hyper-weathering of our models and we love how it looks (or many of us do) but it's really just a caricature of reality on so many levels.

If the model you'll build will be set at a distance, then look closely at your prototype reference shots that show the structure at that similar distance. How much wood grain can you see? Even if you model with wood, you may not need to worry about adding any distressing and graining unless it's a foreground model (or you're just obsessive about such things).

Galen, that is my #1 complaint with the model railroad publishing industry! A few days back, I was reading a construction article in an old Gazette for a 1:20.3 scale DSP&P waycar. The workmanship was excellent in most respects. But, the modeler completely botched the paint job. The individually painted each board with a range of paints which were far too broad. Of course, the author of the piece praised this. It looks absolutely ridiculous. Just to verify that I wasn't delusional, I pulled my color photos of wooden cars and only one car remotely resembled the individually painted board pattern (and with a relatively small pallet). The poor finish ruined the otherwise excellent model.

[Sumpter250]

Damn, you guys are gonna make me a rivet counter sooner or later......good stuff....

My view of rivet counting, is this : Essential in planning and construction. Petty, and demeaning as a comment about someone's work.
"Galen, didn't you bring up something on another thread sometime ago about our mind expecting to see something that we shouldn't see if it were in scale?"
There were a number of comments on that point in a thread about, I believe, using photos for backdrop buildings. I remarked about our minds expecting to "see" texture, at the same distance as the scale distance at which we view our models.

Just for the record on wood vs plastic. I have found that for smaller scale ship/boat models, styrene makes far better and stronger blocks and deadeyes, than any of even the finest grain woods..........at least, that is my experience.

[Mr Fixit]

I think that sumpter has most points here well covered.

I am concerned about your physical reactions to styrene glues, even the low vapour variety, perhaps you should consult your doctor as this maybe a early warning sign. Lots of wood glues and finishes are also bad for ones health with repeated exposure.

As far as the wood vs styrene debate; as a carpenter/cabinetmaker working in maintenance at a large private school I have found the skills easy to transfer and several times I have found my recently aquired hobby skills [in styrene] to be of use at work when working with perspex. All skills are transferable between materials, its just a question of choosing the safest, most affordable material[s] to get the job done.

Just how my arc welding skills will be of use is not immediately apparent, but they are there ready for use.

Dont forget the 80/20 rule in all things. If 80 percent of an object is there then the mind will often fill in the expected details, particularly at a distance as this particular project is expected to be. Mind you its a big ask of a friend for you to build such a big project as a first scratchbuild. Consider the view points of the project and you may be able to fill in the non viewed sides with plain materials and the same with internal walls and floors when considering night lighting.

I have purchased a number of large sheets 24"x12" for use when I get round to consructing my version of the TQW warehouse on the EFRR as a cost and joins saving measure. In my case I will be selectively compressing the length of the structure to give the flavour of the building. Most people will never view the real thing or even the EFRR website so they wont know any better. 80/20 rule again.

You have a lot to consider and consult with your friend about so for the project to be sucessful a clear plan is essential.

Mark

[scubadude]

Thought I would resurrect this thread to update the progress on the Wonderland Hotel. Hard to believe it's been almost 2 years since I started this thing....The majority of that time was spent on research, a fun but time consuming part of the process. After exhausting multiple resources, it was becoming apparent there just wasn't much in the way of pictures of this century old complex. It had gone through so many restorations and additions, it was difficult to actually see any usable pictures. The ones Allan gave me were a compilation of several buildings, not just the main hotel. Allan didn't tell me that, and there was little evidence to suggest otherwise.....

THEN a miracle happened.....I stumbled across some drawings from the Library of Congress and was finally able to figure out the layout of the hotel complex. My original guesstimations were only 3' short! So, here is where I am at this moment....the main building is made from wood, using strip wood from Hobby Lobby and stock wood from Northeastern Scale Models (?) and doors and windows from Grandt Line and the junk box. The hotel is framed and painted and now I'm working on the roof/shingles and the porch and gazebos on either end....

Only a couple of weeks till the train show, so back to work I go.....

[AF350]

Looks good so far, keep us updated.

[scubadude]

A little progress update.....got the roof rough-cut and ready to trim/fit. Porch gazebos are ready for roof....next up will be working on the porch between the gazebos....Nothing is permanently down yet, so thing look a little loosey/goosey...

[AF350]

looks great

[fast car]

Very nice job.

Larry

[Sumpter250]

Feb. 2011 to Jan.2013 in one small movement of the mouse :o It's like a Gravity Slingshot around the sun to achieve "Time Warp" - - - I need a drink !

The Hotel is looking good ! are you going to make this your 2013 "Get Off Your Duff" Challenge ?

[scubadude]

Thanks for the comments...yeah it's hard to believe I have been putzing with this for 2 years already. It would be a good Duff project Sumpter, but I'm afraid I won't get it done in time....after all the research, this project has turned into 3 complete separate buildings, this is just the first one....more pics over the weekend....