Letting Off Steam- No Pun intended

[Green_Elite_Cab]

Green_Elite_Cab!
Several weeks ago you questioned how to do catenary work.
Electric traction is here in Germany not uncommon, in fact about 70% of the network is electrified.
In former times i build overhead wires and catenary myself, there is some experience, knowledge and skills.
On my friend's layout we're just raising the wire. So i made a couple of photos to show how we errect the overhead catenary.
I thought you will have interest to it, so i posted the links to messrs. Sommerfeldt and Viessmann, both H0 catenary manufacturers, and asked if you were interessted. Got no feed back from you. You did a very good job building the poles and masts for the catenary and i am the opinion you have the skills to do the complete work, but i can't prevent you to invent the wheel again. It is your choice.

Lutz

Ah, I hadn't noticed your post! Sorry about that, I'll respond to it back on that thread. I haven't done much work on it as I've had all sorts of other projects holding me up. I do appreciate the help though. I had considered using components from Sommerfeldt and Viessmann, but they don't necessarily match my prototype that well, So i might end up reinventing the wheel regardless (things in the US seem to pan out to be bigger. The larger size Sommefeldt Faively Pantographs are still smaller then the scale versions found on my E44 and Silverliner cars, etc). Some of the Viessmann catenary Masts do match newer ones in the region that I model, but they wouldn't be built until a few years after my particular era.

I am curious about how those manufacturer's wires join together, is it a permanent thing? or can the wire sections be taken apart?

After studying your photo, I think I can see how you assembled that catenary, and I think I'm on the same track. Your catenary looks very good!

I should also thank you again for linking me to those Scharfenberg Couplers. Its been a little frustrating trying to figure out how to order some, It seems as though the manufacturer is the only seller I can find.

[Mr Fixit]

Hi Green _Elite_Cab;

Ive just read through your thread and I thought I would offer up some of my 46 years of life experience.

I think you are very fortunate to have found "your niche" in A; Model Railroading and B Electrified Catenary and to have found that at 21 makes you one lucky guy.

Remember that Railroading, Railfanning and Model Railroading are broad churches to say the least and while certain parts may not be to your interest, you can always find something or some technique that you can learn from others within this broad church. Look for the connections you have with others rather than the differences.

I didnt find my niche until about three years ago and I literally stumbled into it, and the internet is a big part of how it happened. Briefly. I bought some Bachmann trains sets so my son and I could play trains together, then I bought a Bachmann layout book and got interested in the Timesaver layout. For the hell of it I Googled Timesaver and learnt more about it and then found a website on switching layouts and checked out a prototype called the Effingham Railroad in Effingham Illinois.

Bingo. It had my favourite type of switching loco [SW1200], a rail served warehouse with a through track inside, a concrete plant supply facility for my building trade knowledge and interest and best of all a Krispy Kreme plant, all on a shortline only 4 miles long. I call it the Homer Simpson of shortlines and I knew that I had found just the prototype for me to research and model. It is modern era to say the least as it only started up in 1999 and the Krispy Kreme era runs from 2002 to 2007.

Now I want you to consider how small of a niche I occupy, yet there are guys here who can appreciate why I am modelling the EFRR, donuts do play a part in that, hehehehe, and I can appreciate their interests.

Mark

[Mr Fixit]

Part Two

There are lots of guys here and elsewhere, who model the Transition Era, The Reading, The Pennsy, Conrail, now what do you think my connections with them are?

Simple both locomotives used by the EFRR are Generation One power, EFRR 2716 is a EMD SW1200 with a Reading to Conrail to EFRR lineage. Illinos Western 7570 is a EMD GP9 of Pennsy heritage, chopped and cropped at Paducha Ken. into a GP10, then to Conrail and with the distinction of being the last EMD 567 engine unit to run on Conrail. Rescued from the deadline with a failed Main Generator, it has now had two different paint jobs since being with Illinois Western.

And the kicker to all of this is that while I model the EFRR based in Middle America, I was born, grew up, live and work in Melbourne, Australia, yet I have something in common with guys half a world away.

Can you see now how your niche makes you, you and yet gives you your links to others?

Mark

[P5se Camelback]

A very thoughtful, insightful and well-worded piece, Mark.

Definately some food for thought there!

Thanks for posting that!

We should maybe all step back periodically and appreciate "where we are!"

We are indeed fortunate to have such a great hobby and to have found each other with whom to share the experiences.

[ocalicreek]

I occupy a niche of a niche of a niche- I enjoy electrified railroads, and the niche within, electric commuter operations. And I'm 21.

Maybe the more important qualifier in your statement is the 'And I'm 21.' part. I've been involved in a thread over on the MRH site about encouraging teens to stay in the hobby. Seems there's two camps - those that think this is exclusively a hobby in which kids grow out of it then return later in life, and those like myself who did not have that experience and have remained active to a degree in the hobby from childhood, through teenage and young adult years, to now (35...is that approaching middle age? ).

What I'm observing is that not many folks know how or even care to be involved with young adults, especially folks in there teens and twenties. So it may not be only your niche - which I don't claim to relate to or understand in the least - but your age that consternates folks and automatically alienates them, no matter how hard you try to relate or be friendly. In other words, it's not your fault!

I'm glad you've received such encouragement here at Big Blue!

Galen

[Mr Fixit]

Thank you Bil for your kind comments.

My 'insight' has come at the cost of some hard fought and bitter experiences, but I am still here and that pisses some people off big time.

My favourite comment to people who would rather see me dead is;

:hey: Take a Ticket and join the back of the line, its a f@#king long line.

People really dont like that. They like to think they are they only one to have told me to drop dead.

Given I have won the fight within myself to stay alive, they dont stand a chance.

As for the Grim Reaper of Death, well I know that he is just a overworked sub contractor like I once was.

"Brother Grim" as I call him, has his quotas to fill just like everyone else.

He also needs to come up with the right price to call my number in.

Mark

[P5se Camelback]

Over my career as an industrial designer, a product designer, I have found that the more often that one is correct, the less they are liked.



So be it.

[RobertInOntario]

I can sort of relate, although it's not a direct comparison. I've often thought the same thing -- that I'm in a niche of the hobby, or that I'm in a specialized part of a specialized hobby. I live in Canada but model British railways from the 1950s & '60s.

Whenever, by chance, I meet another fellow railway modeler, I have to explain that I'm into British model trains. So I've kind of connected but not quite connected with someone ! They also would not relate to my enthusiasm for "Jinties" and "Black Fives"!

I also dabble in North American HO but, most of the time, I'm running British trains on my layout.

I'm definitely in the minority over here. However, there is a club of British modelers in Ontario, but they're spread out over the Greater Toronto Area. I really enjoy visiting model train shows but 90% of the layouts I see at the shows depict Canadian or US trains.

So how do I deal with this? -- through several ways.

• I still enjoy watching a nice North American layout and there are always principles, layout ideas, scenery, wiring, track layout ideas, etc., that I can apply to my layout.
• I've just come to accept that most modelers here are interested in one kind of trains while I'm interested in another. I simply try to compare the two prototypes, as they're all trains and we're all rail-fans.
• I'm so used to being in the minority that I have almost come to like it!
• connecting with other British enthusiasts via the web has helped a LOT. Not only can I connect with other British train fans in North America, I can also link up with those who actually live in Britain. I'm sure you could (and probably do) link up with others that way as well.
• maybe you could "dabble" in another prototype, as I do? I occasionally model Canadian/US trains because I like the variety and I also like to explore my own railway heritage. But my real interest is in British trains so I keep coming back to those.

As a prototype, I also like electric railways such as Streetcars, Interurbans, etc. I even belong to an electric railway heritage line (<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.hcry.org">http://www.hcry.org</a><!-- m -->) and I've even thought about building a layout that would reflect these railways -- who knows what might happen! I also know of a group near Toronto who has modeled such a railway, and they take their electric/interurban/streetcar layout around to train shows.

Hope these ideas help in some way!

[RobertInOntario]

Hi Green _Elite_Cab;

Ive just read through your thread and I thought I would offer up some of my 46 years of life experience.

I think you are very fortunate to have found "your niche" in A; Model Railroading and B Electrified Catenary and to have found that at 21 makes you one lucky guy.

Remember that Railroading, Railfanning and Model Railroading are broad churches to say the least and while certain parts may not be to your interest, you can always find something or some technique that you can learn from others within this broad church. Look for the connections you have with others rather than the differences.

I didnt find my niche until about three years ago and I literally stumbled into it, and the internet is a big part of how it happened. Briefly. I bought some Bachmann trains sets so my son and I could play trains together, then I bought a Bachmann layout book and got interested in the Timesaver layout. For the hell of it I Googled Timesaver and learnt more about it and then found a website on switching layouts and checked out a prototype called the Effingham Railroad in Effingham Illinois.

Bingo. It had my favourite type of switching loco [SW1200], a rail served warehouse with a through track inside, a concrete plant supply facility for my building trade knowledge and interest and best of all a Krispy Kreme plant, all on a shortline only 4 miles long. I call it the Homer Simpson of shortlines and I knew that I had found just the prototype for me to research and model. It is modern era to say the least as it only started up in 1999 and the Krispy Kreme era runs from 2002 to 2007.

Now I want you to consider how small of a niche I occupy, yet there are guys here who can appreciate why I am modelling the EFRR, donuts do play a part in that, hehehehe, and I can appreciate their interests.

Mark

Mark, I basically agree with what you say above, i.e. I think we're kind of saying the same thing. You can argue that we're all in some sort of niche and the niches can learn from each other and over-lap. This makes life interesting -- it would be pretty dull if we all modeled one era and railroad. Even though I'm in a niche, I can still learn from and enjoy layouts reflecting different eras/regions/even scales.

[Green_Elite_Cab]

Can you see now how your niche makes you, you and yet gives you your links to others?

Mark

I can definitely see that part, but the links are few. Sure, when it comes to my conrail modeling with GP15s, SD40s, and other pieces, there are plenty of fans of them out there. I suppose where i am though, the other stuff i model isn't really interesting (Ironic, because we all live in this area where those prototypes run).

Your layout has many connections, and its very much like many of the other layouts out there. Switching layouts are popular, and you have a popular prototype, even if they are painted over. The location is the unique and interesting part. Still, how many layouts do you see out there with actual commuter trains? I know of one other person on this site who runs them. its so far removed that most people don't really know about it.

Again, as i said in my first post, its not so much a problem here on this forum, or on many of the online forums. Its more in real life. When i've gone to Modeling meets, club open houses, and train shows, i'm usually the only "serious" modeler of such things i can find. Sure, i'll spy a few people running a stock out of the box New Jersey Transit train, but they usually just have it "because its local" or something of that nature. Interest stops at the "I used to ride a train like this".

When the subject of modeling these trains as a main part of a layout shows up, I get funny looks until i show that I'm not crazy and the topic tends to move on to other things quickly (which is find, i recognize that most people aren't interested in Arrows and silverliners). This reaction their part is not surprising, since in many of these clubs and groups, the only other guy who models commuter trains is uncomfortably strange (and no social skills to boot). If that person is present, they'll usually come over to me and trap me into a one sided conversation in which i either don't get a word in edgewise, or where they don't even really seem to be listening to me. In the end, I'm left with a headache and feeling more outcast than ever.

Thats the part that makes me feel a little self conscious and lonely in terms of modeling. When i'm talking scenery, PRR, conrail, freight operations, people work with me just fine, but god forbid i ask a question relating to something like an Arrow III MU car, no one has anything to say. Its just me.

Again, i mean this to be in person encounters, not online. I know of about 5 or 6 people who model the electrified lines, the commuter lines, and there are a whole legion of us Conrail people out here (Big blue for the win).

[P5se Camelback]

I've found your threads quite interesting and educational. I grew up on "the Main Line." I rode the red growlers every day and then the the "silverliners" every day when the replaced the red cars.

But I didn't know there were so many different versions, or that they weren't ALL "Silverliners."

I did notice that the first ones had what appeared to be big visible "outboard" disk brakes and the subsequent ones did not.

But other than that, you've educated me ... thank you!

[Ralph]

[

When the subject of modeling these trains as a main part of a layout shows up, I get funny looks until i show that I'm not crazy and the topic tends to move on to other things quickly (which is find, i recognize that most people aren't interested in Arrows and silverliners). This reaction their part is not surprising, since in many of these clubs and groups, the only other guy who models commuter trains is uncomfortably strange (and no social skills to boot). If that person is present, they'll usually come over to me and trap me into a one sided conversation in which i either don't get a word in edgewise, or where they don't even really seem to be listening to me. In the end, I'm left with a headache and feeling more outcast than ever.

Thats the part that makes me feel a little self conscious and lonely in terms of modeling. When i'm talking scenery, PRR, conrail, freight operations, people work with me just fine, but god forbid i ask a question relating to something like an Arrow III MU car, no one has anything to say. Its just me.

Its unfortunate that you aren't finding more people like yourself for face to face conversations and shared modeling of your favorite electrics but I think you must be doing a good job interacting with the folks who give you funny looks initially but then relax once you talk about things they have a better understanding or appreciation of. You're not coming across as the weird commuter train guy! Maybe you can joke about that and then make a comment or two about why you find your specialty interest so...interesting! You might lure in one or two folks.

People like the uncomfortably strange types you mentioned who dominate conversation and aren't fun to talk to pop up anytime there is a gathering focused on a hobby interest. I've seen them at train shows, flea markets, home improvement shows, Bluegrass festivals; you name it. I seem to be a magnet for them, or else there is a lighted sign over my head that says, "come and talk to me!" I found it hard to extract myself from them (I felt like a deer in the headlights) until I started practicing things I might say in advance. I'd imagine being cornered by one of those guys and then come up with a friendly but assertive statement (nothing more complicated than, "Nice talking to you but I'm going to go and see what some of the other folks here are up to")...and then GO! Say "Seeya later!" if they persist and keep walking.

I hope you find more modelers who will at least appreciate your interest if not actually participate in it as well!

Ralph

[Green_Elite_Cab]

I occupy a niche of a niche of a niche- I enjoy electrified railroads, and the niche within, electric commuter operations. And I'm 21.

Maybe the more important qualifier in your statement is the 'And I'm 21.' part. I've been involved in a thread over on the MRH site about encouraging teens to stay in the hobby. Seems there's two camps - those that think this is exclusively a hobby in which kids grow out of it then return later in life, and those like myself who did not have that experience and have remained active to a degree in the hobby from childhood, through teenage and young adult years, to now (35...is that approaching middle age? ).

What I'm observing is that not many folks know how or even care to be involved with young adults, especially folks in there teens and twenties. So it may not be only your niche - which I don't claim to relate to or understand in the least - but your age that consternates folks and automatically alienates them, no matter how hard you try to relate or be friendly. In other words, it's not your fault!

I'm glad you've received such encouragement here at Big Blue!

Galen

Galen, you may be right. I shot over to the MRH and started reading that thread, and I can agree, for me, its the sheer lack of deeper discussion.

I can usually find it with the older modelers, but many times the age divide is indeed to great to cross. They've lived through this stuff, and they're more interested in the time of the PRR and and the pre-Penn Central years. They don't appear to have interest in that late 70s period.

Like pointed out on that MRH thread, people my age are rare, and when i find them, most of them have something up with them. Life, as well, really clogs things up.

can't stop looking though!

[Green_Elite_Cab]

I've found your threads quite interesting and educational. I grew up on "the Main Line." I rode the red growlers every day and then the the "silverliners" every day when the replaced the red cars.

But I didn't know there were so many different versions, or that they weren't ALL "Silverliners."

I did notice that the first ones had what appeared to be big visible "outboard" disk brakes and the subsequent ones did not.

But other than that, you've educated me ... thank you!

I'm happy that people here definitely understand and appreciate this stuff. Otherwise, i think i'd be out of luck entirely!

Well, there are Silverliners 1 through 4, and Arrows 1 through to 3.

The first ones, the "Pioneer III" cars (later renamed Silverliner I) were from 1958 and had the diamond pantographs. the Silverliner IIs followed in 1963. These had the "Pioneer III" Truck. The break discs were originally out board on those cars, but to much junk got caught in them, so they moved them inside. Starting with the Silverliner IIIs and Arrow Is (all part of the same order to St. Louis Car company from Penn Central and local DOTs) they started getting the GSI 70 ton trucks that are used on almost everything now. the Pioneer trucks i think were eventually replaced with the GSI kind.

The main spotting difference between an Arrow and a Silverliner is Center Hi-level doors. Arrows have them, Silverliners do not. Arrows are also pretty much all run in New Jersey, with short stints across the PRR electrified regions being loaned to Amtrak and Maryland. The silverliners call Philly home.

[Green_Elite_Cab]

Its unfortunate that you aren't finding more people like yourself for face to face conversations and shared modeling of your favorite electrics but I think you must be doing a good job interacting with the folks who give you funny looks initially but then relax once you talk about things they have a better understanding or appreciation of. You're not coming across as the weird commuter train guy! Maybe you can joke about that and then make a comment or two about why you find your specialty interest so...interesting! You might lure in one or two folks.

People like the uncomfortably strange types you mentioned who dominate conversation and aren't fun to talk to pop up anytime there is a gathering focused on a hobby interest. I've seen them at train shows, flea markets, home improvement shows, Bluegrass festivals; you name it. I seem to be a magnet for them, or else there is a lighted sign over my head that says, "come and talk to me!" I found it hard to extract myself from them (I felt like a deer in the headlights) until I started practicing things I might say in advance. I'd imagine being cornered by one of those guys and then come up with a friendly but assertive statement (nothing more complicated than, "Nice talking to you but I'm going to go and see what some of the other folks here are up to")...and then GO! Say "Seeya later!" if they persist and keep walking.

I hope you find more modelers who will at least appreciate your interest if not actually participate in it as well!

Ralph

Oh boy, lots of responses right after the other!

You're right, and thats how i've been trying to angle conversations. Still, it agitates me that i have to do that. If i came in out of the blue discussing something like a Conrail Dash-8 or something, i wouldn't be hitting any weird rocks at all, i'd just seem like another interested modeler.

guess i just need to adapt.

I'm terrible with those folks because i try to not be rude, and i have a high enough tolerance that i'm not going to just shut people down, so i tend to get trapped unless i really have to move on or go!