Passenger locomotives

[Running Bear]

[RobertInOntario]

Awesome pics and locos!

I have several passenger-only locos on my British layout. Most are Pacifics -- such as the Flying Scotsman, Princess Elizabeth, Barnstaple, Mallard, City of London.

[jwb]

Mr. Green-Elite, I'm new, but I find your layout very interesting. Is there a place I can see more?

[cn nutbar]

Excellent contributions Everyone --- keep them coming.Here's a couple of locomotives Andrew may like--- Canadian National J class Pacifics (4-6-2).When built in 1919/20 these locomotives were used on mainline passenger trains.Equipped with 69" drivers and 200 lbs. boiler pressure,they were fast and powerful.They were eventually replaced on premier passenger trains by U-I Mountain and U-2 Northerns but proved very useful for the rest of their careers on secondary and commuter trains throughout the CNR system.

[RobertInOntario]

CN Nutbar, I haven't read through all of the posts, but are all of those locos yours? They're awesome -- the detailing is great! If so, who are they made by? I have an old AHM/Rivarossi ex-Santa Fe Pacific that I've tried to convert into a CN J class Pacific. It's not bad -- it at least captures to look & feel of a CNR J Class, yet it has many discrepancies. I should post pix sometime... Rob

[Green_Elite_Cab]

A lot of us have not the space to run passenger trains at all or could do a very boring operation only. If the freight train has more than 25 cars and there is a yard where that train could be build you have a good chance to find a passenger train too. Poor man passenger trains are RDC and Doodlebug if they match the other aspects of the layout (Warning! RDC and especially Doodlebug demand awful curve radius)

Just out of curiosity, what is your idea of an interesting passenger operation? I to think its just a matter of interest. to some people, a commuter train is boring, its usually identical cars with obscure power. on the other hand, they do have visual interest. they're fast, lit up like a christmas tree, and people "connect" with them easier.

I only model a megaton of passenger trains because every electrified line is a passenger line. I wouldn't consider it a layout an accurate representation without the passenger traffic, diesel or electric. However, i recognize many lines on this continent do not feature passenger trains, or have not in the past 50 years or so.

I might even further suspect the fact that the overwhelming majority of railroad mileage in the US is freight. Amtrak only follows a few routes, and outside it's Corridors, probably only one or two every once in a while. There are some Commuter railroads out there, but they all Spider out from either the Northeast Corridor (and its population centers), Chicago, or some of the major cities in California. I know there are more, but the commuter systems get increasingly smaller.

Still passenger trains can be done in a small space, without RDCs or Doodlebugs. If you have 4 feet of staging track, you can store a three-car push-pull set with its locomotive. Even in the town of Vernon, CA (you roughly model this area, correct?), you have Metrolink, and Amtrak California. Amtrak California has it's unique Surfliners cars, as well as Horizon and Amfleet coaches, P32BWH and F59PHI locomotives, which recognizable as California power.

Metrolink has F59s (both PH and PHI), Bombardier bi-levels, as well as many former NJ transit Comet I (the original push pull coach by Pullman Standard from 1968) and Comet IB (Formerly St. Lousis car company Arrow I Electric Multiple units also from 1968), with various levels of patch jobs on them. Most of these models can be had, and they all have interesting details or interesting history to them.

I'm not saying you should model commuter trains, just that the variety is there. Heck, since your industries are switched by tracks on the street, your switching won't get in the way of some short "off peak" commuter trains that could roll by for just a moment.

Mr. Green-Elite, I'm new, but I find your layout very interesting. Is there a place I can see more?

I have a few other threads here, primarily the "GEC's Layout Progress" and "GEC's Roster Thread". This is really the best place to see what I'm up to, since i don't really post elsewhere. I noticed on the photo thread a few weeks ago that you said you were a PRR/PC/Conrail modeler, so i figured we'd have something in common!

[Green_Elite_Cab]

incoming photo drop!

Some Amtrak stuff today.

Here is the other ubiquitous modern passenger diesel, the AMD103/110 Genesis (more technically, the P42DC). These locomotives are based on the Dash-8 (and later dash-9) technology of contemporary GE freight locomotives. However, that is where the similarities end. It was the first diesel in many decades to have fabricated trucks in the US (instead of cast trucks), as well as the only US diesel with a monocoque carbody. Essentially, the carbody supported the locomotive's weight, and unlike conventional diesels, was not build on a platform or frame. the Genesis is physically shorter than most locomotives as well, letting it match the profile of older cars, as well as fit in tight clearances.

i installed a details west superdetail kit on this thing, and made a few other changes (painted the radiator fan blades silver, spaces black). You tell me if i looks good! just needs some weathering. Its actually my only Amtrak diesel, and even it is specially equipped for Northeast Corridor service.





In the Beginning, there were GG1s. They worked out for a while, but then they got old. Then there were the E60s that arrived to dethrone the GG1 in 1972. These didn't work out so well, and the GG1 rolled onward into 1981 on Amtrak.



Eventually, the AEM7s achieved success, though 40 years later it might be waning. #911 (on the left) was involved in a fire in real life just a few months ago (see "For GEC... an AEM7 on fire"). Smaller than its predecessors, it was faster and more powerful (7,000 HP in the AEM7 to 6,000 in the E60, and only 4,620 HP in the GG1).



The AEM7s managed to wear several paint schemes, including the very short lived Phase IV painted on locomotives in the mid to late 90s. The scheme persists with a little variation on the rolling stock.



This is similar to the current scheme of the AEM7. these models represent DC units. Many have been rebuilt with new guts and reclassed "AEM7AC" (a project on my bench right now). These should last another ten years or so with maintenance, perhaps beating the GG1 as the electric locomotive that won't ever quit.

These AEM7s are southbound with the "Silver Meteor"



The E60s on the other hand held on until the mid 1980s as AEM7s replaced them. Whichever E60s weren't sold to NJ transit (like #958 above) were rebuilt into "E60MA" units that would grind along the rails with heavy passenger trains until early 2003. #603 at strasburg is the only survivor of this group of E60s. NJT #958 is the only other passenger E60 left.



The HHP8 electrics were the most powerful locomotives in North America when they arrived in 2001, being able to develop 8,000 HP continuously. Intended to replace the E60MAs on long haul trains, the HHP8s also suffer from mechanical difficulties much like their predecessors. They are based on, but are not quite the same as the Acela Express Power cars.



Roof Shot



HHP8 #664 returns northbound in the fading sunlight with the Silver Meteor bound for New York.



Of Course, the Epitome of REALLY Fast trains in the US is the Acela Express Trainsets. Capable of above (but limited to) 150 MPH operation, the Acela is the fastest thing currently on US rails (only the UA Turbo Trains and Budd Metroliner EMUs of the early 70s have surpassed this). These locomotives are technically semi-permanently coupled to the trainset they are in, and when something is wrong with the locomotives or coaches, the whole Acela express moves as a single unit (standard couplers are hidden in the nose cone; its the only way they can couple with conventional trains).

It looks fast standing still...



Another Northbound Acela as the sun sets.

[cn nutbar]

Hello Rob---Thank you for your comments.The locomotives in my photos are brass.My good friend Doctor Wayne custom painted and weathered #5107(J-4-E) and #5702(K-5-A),#5303(J-7-C) has a "factory paint job" and 6060 was already custom painted when I purchased it at the LHS (Niagara Central,St.Catharines Ontario).The 6167 is also a "factory painted" brass locomotive from Division Point

[MasonJar]

A lot of us have not the space to run passenger trains at all or could do a very boring operation only. If the freight train has more than 25 cars and there is a yard where that train could be build you have a good chance to find a passenger train too. Poor man passenger trains are RDC and Doodlebug if they match the other aspects of the layout (Warning! RDC and especially Doodlebug demand awful curve radius)

Just out of curiosity, what is your idea of an interesting passenger operation? I to think its just a matter of interest. to some people, a commuter train is boring, its usually identical cars with obscure power. on the other hand, they do have visual interest. they're fast, lit up like a christmas tree, and people "connect" with them easier.

Still passenger trains can be done in a small space, without RDCs or Doodlebugs. If you have 4 feet of staging track, you can store a three-car push-pull set with its locomotive.

It also depends on the era and location.

Up through the 1950s, it was common for trains on branchlines in southern Ontario to consist of a mailcar and a single coach. Or a mixed train, with a few boxcars and a coach. As early as the 1930s, CNR was experimenting with self-propelled cars of all kinds, not just doodlebugs (and also abandoning money-losing routes). For the most part however, they seemed to follow the rule that any train can be a passenger train if you stick a coach on it. Even the "strictly passenger" trains weren't really - they were mail trains (where the revenue came from) with a coach.

And don't forget the era (up through the 1920s) of the "radial railway" - the forerunner of commuter roads.

Another part of the passenger ops that is not often modelled is the servicing aspect. Handling of head-end cars, cleaning and restocking coaches, sleepers, diners, lounges and others, including icing for air conditioning (if you're in the appropriate era). Turning the trains (ok, maybe not this one, as a balloon track or large wye is required to turn the whole train).

Lastly, o matter your era (although more modern works best) you can always do an excursion special. Even these have their origins in the specials run by railways in the summer (to the lake) or winter (to the ski destination).

Andrew

[jwb]

Here are a couple more Athearn F59PHIs:
[albumimg]4068[/albumimg]
And here are some Walthers cab cars, detailed per an article by the late Frank Cicero in RMC. Some detail still needs to be added on both, and the CDOT car has one too many end windows. I haven't fixed this because I'm not aware of a decal replacement for the CDOT seal.
[albumimg]4069[/albumimg]
[albumimg]4070[/albumimg]
I'm planning to include a back-and-forth electronic circuit that will allow push-pull trains and RDCs to shuttle back and forth on this section of my layout, but I have to work through some other projects before I get there.

By the way, modelsof1900, that West Side SP 4-4-2 was used on the Sacramento section of the San Joaquin, so you can get away with a 2- or 3-car Daylight train.

[Green_Elite_Cab]

It also depends on the era and location.

Up through the 1950s, it was common for trains on branchlines in southern Ontario to consist of a mailcar and a single coach. Or a mixed train, with a few boxcars and a coach. As early as the 1930s, CNR was experimenting with self-propelled cars of all kinds, not just doodlebugs (and also abandoning money-losing routes). For the most part however, they seemed to follow the rule that any train can be a passenger train if you stick a coach on it. Even the "strictly passenger" trains weren't really - they were mail trains (where the revenue came from) with a coach.

And don't forget the era (up through the 1920s) of the "radial railway" - the forerunner of commuter roads.

Another part of the passenger ops that is not often modelled is the servicing aspect. Handling of head-end cars, cleaning and restocking coaches, sleepers, diners, lounges and others, including icing for air conditioning (if you're in the appropriate era). Turning the trains (ok, maybe not this one, as a balloon track or large wye is required to turn the whole train).

Lastly, o matter your era (although more modern works best) you can always do an excursion special. Even these have their origins in the specials run by railways in the summer (to the lake) or winter (to the ski destination).

Andrew

I didn't even think of some of these "older" forms of passenger trains, but you're absolutely right. there are plenty fo passenger trains for most situations.

As far as the servicing layout goes, i've seen a few that incorporate this operation, but it is literally the entire layout (along with the terminal associated with it). The trains depart immediately to staging. Definitely an interesting operation.

as far as little modeled goes, i think rapid transit is the hardest sort of layout to find. You could actually model this in a reasonable amount of space, sometimes stations are within eyesight of each other. In the past Walthers offered BART cars and the DC Metro, but these are long discontinued. More recently, P1K has made available New York City Subways, and there are a few niche companies that make subway and Rapid transit models (Island Model Works, IHP).

[Green_Elite_Cab]

And here are some Walthers cab cars, detailed per an article by the late Frank Cicero in RMC. Some detail still needs to be added on both, and the CDOT car has one too many end windows. I haven't fixed this because I'm not aware of a decal replacement for the CDOT seal.

I'm planning to include a back-and-forth electronic circuit that will allow push-pull trains and RDCs to shuttle back and forth on this section of my layout, but I have to work through some other projects before I get there.

Ah, but you have to be careful, If I'm thinking of the right RMC article, those were Comet IV cars (with notes on Comet IIIs). The Walthers models are VERY generic Comet II type cars. They are a little different from each other. they still look good though! I'm wishing i picked up some IHP Comet III kits when I had the chance. I might hold out for Comet I cars, since they fit a little better into my modeling schemes.

In the future, i plan to do a similar automatic operation, maybe with my PATCO cars (the prototype is also automatic, so i guess that works to!).

By the way, is this the decal set you need? scroll to the bottom of this page- <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://islandmodelworks.com/M2.html">http://islandmodelworks.com/M2.html</a><!-- m -->

[jwb]

Cicero did at least two RMC articles on Comets. The one you're thinking about is in fact on Comet IVs, but he also did one about 1995 on Comet IIs.

I would have liked to get more IHP stuff, but I found the guy hard to deal with. I still have an FP10 and some Jersey Arrows I need to get to.

[jwb]

Here's an old Gem brass Amtrak SDP40F. I regeared it with NWSL gears and remotored it with a can motor and flywheels. I also added a lot of detail and painted it. Still a mediocre runner, but the old Gems hardly ran at all.
[albumimg]4071[/albumimg]

[Green_Elite_Cab]

Cicero did at least two RMC articles on Comets. The one you're thinking about is in fact on Comet IVs, but he also did one about 1995 on Comet IIs.

I would have liked to get more IHP stuff, but I found the guy hard to deal with. I still have an FP10 and some Jersey Arrows I need to get to.

Ah, i didn't see that article! I remember searching on the Model Railroad Magazine Index when it was up, and i never found that one, i'll have to look for it. where there every any articles on his layout itself? I can't find much on it. Clearly, he had similar modeling goals to me.

I wish i had some of those Arrow Is. when they originally came out, I was looking towards modeling the modern day, and i couldn't justify the cost of buying them. I've only ever seen Mike's display model and one that was kitbashed into a Comet IB at a hobby shop, but that was it. I've been lurking on Ebay, but no luck.

IHP stuff is nice when you can find it. He had me test out the new drives for the Silverliner IVs that were supposed to be in the SEPTA store. They were there for a while, but there was supposed to be another run this past summer. I've been visiting that store in my spare time week to week (school is in Philadelphia), and Nothing. When it comes to Mike and IHP, you just need copious amounts of patience.

I got a bunch of his other models, like Silverliner IIIs, IVs, Arrow IIIs, and a few diesel shells. What i really want are some of those Reading Green Cars, and some Arrow IIs. I already put in an order for Arrow IIs, but they won't come out for at least a decade at this rate.

Here's an old Gem brass Amtrak SDP40F. I regeared it with NWSL gears and remotored it with a can motor and flywheels. I also added a lot of detail and painted it. Still a mediocre runner, but the old Gems hardly ran at all.

cool SDP40!