Passenger locomotives

[doctorwayne]

If I'm not mistaken, the Camelback design was to accommodate the very wide Wooten firebox, which was developed to allow burning of Anthracite culm, a low-grade by-product of Anthracite mining. There would have been very little room for the engineer's seatbox, as the firebox widens as it nears floor level. The fireman stood, depending on the loco, on the footplate of the loco or on the front platform of the tender, somewhat sheltered from the elements by that short roof. There was at least one class of Camelback which was equipped with two firebox doors and, of course, two firemen.
One of the big drawbacks of Camelback locos is that the engineer sits above the siderods. In the event of a failure (broken rod or bearing) several tons of moving parts were apt to be thrown upwards, into the cab. In 1927, new construction of Camelback locos was banned, although some survived into the '50s.

Wayne

[toptrain]

* Back again about the 4-6-2 camelback and it's use on the LV Black Diamond. The 6 were used for 5 years on the Black Diamond. Lehigh Valley was highly competitive in keeping the Black Diamond as one of the grandest, or should I say most stylish passenger trains. There all Pullman 5 car train at the time was the way to travel. Either as a New York to Buffalo, or with their connection New York to Chicago. The power of this train was updated frequently. The Pacific Camelbacks lasted only 5 years till replaced with more powerful updated rear cab pacific's. These new Pacific's were powerful enough to eliminate double heading for the hilly sections from Mauch Chunk north. Even with the new steel cars that were starting to be built at this time. These Pacific Camelbacks remained for a few more years. I can't find out what happened to them. Most likely rebuilt to rear cabs with additional power upgrades.

toptrain

[Green_Elite_Cab]

Silverliner IV- Built by GE-AVCO in 1974. I plan to number the unit 9018, the first Silverliner IV. These were purchased and owned by SEPTA, and operated by the Reading Company, Penn Central, and later, Conrail (as opposed to the Silverliner IIs and IIIs, which were railroad owned until SEPTA took control later in the Conrail Era).

[cn nutbar]

Hello Everyone--- E-10-A Mogul #91 is seen leaving Leetown with the daily mixed passenger train for Port Maitland.Today's consist is typical,although interesting which includes a Pennsylvania coke hopper,a CNR outside braced box car that looks like it just came out of the car shops,another steel boxcar, a new and older style baggage-express car and finally one of Canadian National's newest passenger coaches.

[Selector]

I haven't been here for a while, but I see you folks are still keeping up a great pace with superb hardware and photos.

Here are some of my passanger engines:









Crandell

[jwb]

Mr. Nutbar, I really like that mixed train. It reminds me of CN 1950s steam film on some of my DVDs. I'm wondering, though, about the streamlined coach on the rear -- I assume there's no steam line going throught the freight cars, so it can't be very chilly out, or the coach passengers would be complaining. On the other hand, there's no open-window capability on the air conditioned coach, so things would be pretty stuffy with no a/c working either. Did the CN actually do thngs this way?

[cn nutbar]

Crandell---great to have you back and to see your beautiful scenery and locomotives again

JWB---thanks for your comments.You have raised some interesting points regarding the steam line to the passenger coach that I hadn't considered when I set up this shot.I would assume that the real railroads would be much more aware of passenger's comfort so this combination would not be seen during the colder seasons but if the coach is air-conditioned it may be very suitable in warmer months---but does the air-conditioner run separate from any connections to the locomotive or a steam generator car---hopefully someone may have some insight to this situation

Here's another mixed train which may also bring up some safety concerns---would a real railroad have issues about running a loaded tank car with flammable material in front of a loaded stock car followed by passenger equipment.At least they wouldn't have to worry about steam lines to the passenger equipment as these older cars had their own heating devices on each car.

[BR60103]

I'm not sure about the stock car, but I think the rules specify a number of neutral cars between a steam locomotive and a tank car of flammables. There's probably a rule about separating the tank car from passenger cars and cabooses. also unsure about diesels. I recall an exception for a train composed entirely of tank cars.
That 5400 class car is going to be dark and suffering extremes of temperatures. CN (and I think VIA) held on to some pretty ancient stock to run in mixed trains.

[doctorwayne]

With the help of the book "A Companion to Canadian National Railways Passenger Equipment", I can shed some light on that smooth-sided coach in the earlier photos. With no steam line, there would indeed be no heat. However, those cars were equipped with electro-mechanical air conditioning. When the car was not moving, the compressor ran at low speed, providing some measure of cooling - power was supplied by the batteries. When the car was moving, a higher rate of cooling would be provided when the axle-driven genemotor kicked in. The car's water system would have been operable, as it was pressurised by air from the brake system, provided via a separate reservoir.
In my opinion, this car would have been very unlikely on the train shown, as the black/green/gold paint scheme was introduced in 1954 on a large order of passenger equipment from Pullman-Standard and Canadian Car & Foundry. As my good friend Ed has set his layout in "the late '50s", this relatively new P-S car would be more likely seen on more important trains. Still, who could resist showing-off such a handsome paint scheme? As built, these cars seated 52, with room for another 24 in a separate smoking compartment.

As for that tank car in the later train, probably loaded with vegetable oil or corn syrup.

Wayne

[jwb]

By the way, Mr. Nutbar, how do you do those really fine low-relief background structures? (I'm fairly new here, so forgive me if you've answered this eight times already>)

[cn nutbar]

Hello Everyone---thanks for all the feedback.JWB,your inquiries are always welcomed---the backdrops are from KingMill Enterprises that Doctor Wayne reinforced with styrene to give them more definition.KingMill has a web-site: <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.kingmill.com">www.kingmill.com</a><!-- w -->

[jwb]

And while you're at it, how about some more on those heavyweight baggage cars and the wooden coach? I wind up studying your photos pretty closely, there's a lot to learn there.

[cn nutbar]

Hello jwb--- I was hoping Doctor Wayne would respond to your inquiries as the cars you are asking about ( like most of my collection) are the products of his creative talents.The coach is an older Roundhouse Pullman Palace car that was custom painted and detailed by Wayne.The baggage cars are far more interesting---they actually started as Rivarossi pullman cars that Wayne rebuilt into the heavyweight wooden baggage cars---when you look at these cars,it's hard to imagine their origins

[doctorwayne]

Sorry, I should have chimed-in earlier. The baggage car with the arched doors is a former Athearn car - the ribs on the roof are the giveaway. It was likely a coach or Pullman. The second baggage car began life as a Rivarossi coach - the roof vent at the near end is the clue.

The Rivarossi coach is probably the best of the lot for converting to a wooden baggage/express car, although you could also make it into a wooden coach with a little more work. Mister Nutbar had lent me the book "Canadian National Railways Passenger Equipment" and I was quite taken by a photo therein of a horse express car. A quick check of the prototype's specs against a Rivarossi coach which I had on hand confirmed its suitablity, and it didn't take too long to create this:



Construction consists of removing the sides between the ends down to the floor, then removing any vestiges of the sides from the edges of the floor. Wherever there's to be a door, the vestige of the side is left in place and acts as the doorsill. I leave the car's original ends in place, as wooden cars often had their ends covered-over with sheet metal (and it also saves a lot of work making "wooden" ends ). New sides are built-up from Evergreen strips and sheet car siding, as are the doors. If the car is to be shortened, the cut in the floor is made at a point different from that in the roof/window casting, and with careful planning, the shortened car will snap together just like the original.

Once I had rebuilt enough Rivarossi Pullmans to complete a short passenger train, I decided any more that I could find would also become baggage cars, but at about that time, the flow of used (cheap) Rivarossi passenger cars dried up. I did stumble upon a number of Athearn heavyweights, in pretty rough shape, at a good price (three or four bucks each, I think) and decided to try converting them into baggage cars. Because the bodies are one piece, with a removeable floor, they're a little more work to convert (mostly the roof/side joint) but they also need new floors. Here's a couple that were built, like Ed's cars, to match prototype photos. (His got Rivarossi trucks with Kadee wheels, while most of mine have their original Athearn metal trucks and wheels - they roll like a brick. )

Here's an Athearn Pullman/coach converted to a CNR express car. The underbody detail is from MDC, PSC, and scratchbuilt:



...and another, shortened somewhat, and with Central Valley trucks:



Here are a few more Athearns:









This is a steel car made from two half baggage cars (the other halves became a wooden car with smaller doors than those on this car). I added windows, as was common in my modelling era, taken from some of the scrap sides removed from coaches.




And a couple of Rivarossi cars:



...this one's a Rivarossi coach, shortened somewhat, and left with the steel sides with most of the windows plated-over:



This steel combine, made from a shortened Rivarossi diner, was my very first conversion:



...and my doodlebug, "The Bee" was kitbashed from a Rivarossi combine, an Athearn F7, a Mashima can motor, and detail parts from just about everyone:



Wayne

[jwb]

Well, thank you very, very much for that highly informative discussion -- there's a great deal to absorb. As I said above, posts from the two of you make me study the photos pretty hard.