Although my layout is strictly DC(my choice),I use Peco insulfrog turnouts and they are power routing turnouts.I put feeders on the end of the turnouts where the movable rail is and have never had any problems.

foulrift Wrote:I use Peco insulfrog turnouts and they are power routing turnouts.I put feeders on the end of the turnouts where the movable rail is and have never had any problems.

Same here. I've used and continue to use both the electrofrog and insulfrog Peco turnouts and have never had a problem with either. Won't consider using anything else. Since I've gone DCC, I'm using only the insulfrog turnouts on my current layout, simply to keep the wiring simpler. Love the fact that you don't need to use any sort of switch throw's with them because of their built in springs that snap the points tightly to the stock rails.

Some time back (maybe 18 - 20 years ago) I discovered while hand-laying track for my then-strictly-DC basement layout, that Isolated frog, power-routed turnouts (with jumpers between the stock rails and the moveable points/frog) effectively eliminated my life-long headache of short circuits each time I through a turn out! :!:

What a pleasant side benefit to the extra time spent spiking rail by hand and the constant concerns about maintaining gauge ...



I'm assuming that the Peco turnouts do essentially the same thing ... correct? :? :?:

P5se Camelback Wrote:I'm assuming that the Peco turnouts do essentially the same thing ... correct? :? :?:

Pretty much. Peco turnouts also have extra power contact points on the point rails that slide up under the stock rails and give you another power contact point besides just the points themselves.[attachment=7019]With the insulated frog version, even though they are power routing by design, you have power coming into all rails on the turnout all the time, unless you deliberately insulate them from the other tracks. About once a year, I'll spray some contact cleaner on the critical areas on the point rails just to keep everything nice and clean. In over 20 years of using Peco turnouts, I've never had a problem with one of them. They are extremely well made!

I've used all Pecos LIVEfrog turnouts (40+) on my layout and haven't had a single incident involving them. They're !! GREAT !!

FCIN Wrote:Justin;
Which part of your current plan was not effected by the water leak?[ATTACHMENT NOT FOUND]If it's the upper portion of the plan, couldn't you just go ahead and work on that and allow for adding the wing at the right once you get the leak problem fixed?
Of course using the time to work on your freight car fleet or build some structures would put your time to good use too, but being able to actually do some switching on whatever part of the bench work you can use would probably keep your interest peaked.

You are correct, the longer section of the layout is unaffected by the leaking... for now. I guess I could work on the upper section of the plan for now. As long as the leak doesn't move to the upper section I should be fine

I agree, Peco track & turnouts are quality products. I've used their code 75 for years, even though these are based on European/british tie spacing and turnout designs. Since a couple of years, they now produce a small range of code 83 US outline track, and is of the same high quality.
What's more, their factory is only 30-40 minutes drive from where I live, yet I've never managed to visit yet (I don't expect that I could get a factory tour and 'score' some freebies either....).

Koos

It has been about 6 months since I put up benchwork and I haven't made very much progress at all, During the troubleshooting stage of my wiring problem I have to disconnect most of the track from each other, So now I am back to just having benchwork set up, and not much else.

I have also been thinking about how long it is going to take to "Finish" this layout, and by "Finish" I mean have the layout be fully operational, fully sceniced, and have a decent amount of super-detailing.

I have about a year and a half to finish this layout before I go off to collage so I have been considering something smaller.
I have had my eye on the Mid-Atlantic & Western layout from the May 2001 MRR. I think that a layout that size could be built within a year and a half.

What are your thoughts?

Justin;

Don't have that issue of MRR - do you have a drawing of the track plan or know where one could find it?

Ed, Here is a version of the track-plan that Steinjr drew up, There are some things I would change about it, but it's a pretty nice plan.

Justinmiller171 Wrote: ... During the troubleshooting stage of my wiring problem I have to disconnect most of the track from each other, So now I am back to just having benchwork set up, and not much else.

So I gather that none of the track had actually been "laid," but was actually just sitting loose on top of the plywood. :? :?

I'm not sure I quite understand why there would be a need to "disconnect" any of the already "laid" track to do electrical troubleshooting. As all of the track that I currently have down is the product of many hours of work, drawing the centerline of the right-of-way, gluing down ties, block sanding the top of the ties to insure that are FLAT, driving spikes into the ties next to the rails, sliding three track gauges along as I go to insure that I maintain the proper gauge. If I had to "disconnect" all of that to troubleshoot a short circuit, I'd dump all my model railroad stuff at some consignment store and switch hobbies to reloading 9mm ammo to take my friend, Mr. Ruger target shooting! I guess I'm just too old to understand the new way things are done these days!

Justinmiller171 Wrote:I have also been thinking about how long it is going to take to "Finish" this layout, and by "Finish" I mean have the layout be fully operational, fully sceniced, and have a decent amount of super-detailing. I have about a year and a half to finish this layout before I go off to college so I have been considering something smaller. I have had my eye on the Mid-Atlantic & Western layout from the May 2001 MRR. I think that a layout that size could be built within a year and a half. What are your thoughts?

O.K., Justin ... you asked ... so I will offer some perspective ... and no, this is a different kind of perspective than the kind I was discussing with Gary S. last week.

There has long been a saying (since long before you or I were born) in our hobby that all model railroaders used to joke about and laugh amongst themselves, because in the overall scheme of things, the saying is depressingly true ... if your overall goal is to "finish" your layout. The saying is .... A model railroad is never "finished." One reason for that is because as you go, you get better at doing things ... to the point that the early things you did are not quite as good as the things you currently do; so you tear things out and redo them to "bring them up to the current standard" ... which keeps improving.

You see ... model railroading is a hobby. Hobbies are primarily a diversion ... a relaxing distraction from the stress and struggles of what happens during daily life. As a diversion, it is generally approached in a relaxed atmosphere because the purpose of a hobby is to relax one's self in some activity that is found enjoyable in some way. There is no rush, no hurry ... just dogged continued progress towards the goal of building a model railroad and eventually operating trains on it ... again, for the purposes of relaxing!

Somehow, the young "modelers" of today have become in so much of a hurry to get it "finished" that they don't actually build anything anymore ... they spend three times as much to buy it "pre-built," because to have to build something would take too long and delay getting the railroad "finished." For some unknown reason there is this mighty rush to get it "finished."

Well, Justin, you do what you think you ought to do ... make the decision based on your own thoughts ... not someone elses! Eventually, if you always look to someone else for approval to feel satisfied, you will never be satisfied! YOU must satisfy yourself ... no one else will!

But, tell me, Justin, ... just what will you do for relaxation, fun and the enjoyment of personal accomplishment once your layout is "finished?"

Justinmiller171 Wrote:Ed, Here is a version of the track-plan that Steinjr drew up, There are some things I would change about it, but it's a pretty nice plan.

That is a pretty interesting starting point. I'd sure add some length on the main tracks at the left side since you'll have 13ft 4in available instead of 10ft. Give you a little more breathing room for switching. I like the big city switching district look. Sort of reminds me of the MILW Kingsbury Branch. http://home.comcast.net/~skytop35/Kingsb...kplan.html I might have to play around with something along these lines myself.

P5se Camelback Wrote:So I gather that none of the track had actually been "laid," but was actually just sitting loose on top of the plywood. :? :?

Yep :oops:

P5se Camelback Wrote:I'm not sure I quite understand why there would be a need to "disconnect" any of the already "laid" track to do electrical troubleshooting.

To be honest, I was being stupid and when I was trying to Isolate the short(At this time I believed that I had DCC-friendly track) and so I took apart all of the track and wired up just one small part to see what the problem was, It was only after I did all of that I realized that my track was NOT DCC-friendly and that taking apart the track was unnecessary.

P5se Camelback Wrote:There has long been a saying (since long before you or I were born) in our hobby that all model railroaders used to joke about and laugh amongst themselves, because in the overall scheme of things, the saying is depressingly true ... if your overall goal is to "finish" your layout. The saying is .... A model railroad is never "finished."

I agree, however I don't want to get started on a project that won't even get close to being "Finished". I have attempted to build to previous layouts, one was an Ho-scale 4x8, which had track laid and some basic scenery, but it still was nowhere near finished when it got scrapped. The second layout I tried to build was my Miami layout, which also just had track down when I quit on it. I don't want this layout to have the same story.

P5se Camelback Wrote:You see ... model railroading is a hobby. Hobbies are primarily a diversion ... a relaxing distraction from the stress and struggles of what happens during daily life. As a diversion, it is generally approached in a relaxed atmosphere because the purpose of a hobby is to relax one's self in some activity that is found enjoyable in some way. There is no rush, no hurry ... just dogged continued progress towards the goal of building a model railroad and eventually operating trains on it ... again, for the purposes of relaxing!

Building a layout is very relaxing, however what is relaxing to me most is running train on my "Almost finished" layout, I also like making scenery, putting together rolling stock, and detailing. The parts of layout building that frustrate me are: Track-laying, Wiring, and Scratch-Building.

P5se Camelback Wrote:But, tell me, Justin, ... just what will you do for relaxation, fun and the enjoyment of personal accomplishment once your layout is "finished?"

Run Trains!

Don't get me wrong I Strongly admire you guys that have the patience and skill to build amazing things from a sheet of plastic and build amazing layouts, but I don't have the Time, Patience, or Money to do so. Maybe in 10+ years when I am more skilled, more patient, and make more than $30 a week
but definitely not right now.

FCIN Wrote:

Justinmiller171 Wrote:Ed, Here is a version of the track-plan that Steinjr drew up, There are some things I would change about it, but it's a pretty nice plan.

That is a pretty interesting starting point. I'd sure add some length on the main tracks at the left side since you'll have 13ft 4in available instead of 10ft. Give you a little more breathing room for switching. I like the big city switching district look. Sort of reminds me of the MILW Kingsbury Branch. http://home.comcast.net/~skytop35/Kingsb...kplan.html I might have to play around with something along these lines myself.

Extending both sides was exactly what I was thinking. With the extra space I could also add room for more scenery, The original plan is a little track-heavy.

There are also some other track-plans I am looking at, A few of my favorites are:

Tenderfoot Industrial Railroad:http://www.shenware.com/layouts/tenderfoot.html
Federal Street:http://www.xclent.freeuk.com/p87/fedst1.htm
Ness Street Yard:http://img191.imageshack.us/i/nessst.jpg/sr=1

Justin,

Good luck with whatever you decide. :|

I think somebody needs to come out with a step-by-step how-to book for novice modelers based NOT on the sacred sheet of 4x8 plywood, but a small switching layout. Just like one of those basics for beginners books with an intro chapter with some nice beauty shots of the finished layout and some basic modeling philosophy, and a chapter each on benchwork, trackwork, wiring, rolling stock, scenery and operations, but based on an ISL or something small. Lance Mindheim or another such modeler with feet firmly planted in the great traditions of the hobby but with a good pulse on the modern developments too would be ideal. I have a feeling such a book would be a tremendous success. I'd write it myself if that were my area of interest, but I already have a clear idea of just what I want to model and the steps I need to take to accomplish that, and I'm at a place in my life where I can do that.

My wish for you is that you find what it is you're looking for, and that it makes you happy, even if it's not model railroading.

Galen