Well, this hobby is many things to many people. While perhaps we'd like to get the empire finished, so to speak, for others there is happiness in the planning, replanning, theorizing, and planning yet again.

I know for me, I have spent far more reading about prototype, and looking for photos, making up my own stories about my fictional road, and so on, than building the layout that will create that world in miniature. I enjoy the social side too, so I spend time going to the club set-ups and hanging out with crews working on others' layouts.

I am sure that Justin is getting something out of his planning-oriented approach - maybe we're not aware of it - but it doesn't mean he's not enjoying himself.

Sit back, relax. The most important thing about this hobby is that it is not the most important thing.

[/editorial]


Andrew

MasonJar Wrote:The most important thing about this hobby is that it is not the most important thing.

hock: Please tell me you are just kidding!

The "correct" answer is:

MasonJar Wrote:I am sure that Justin is getting something out of his planning-oriented approach - maybe we're not aware of it - but it doesn't mean he's not enjoying himself.

Thanks Andrew! I don't necessarily enjoy the planning stage, I guess I just like to dream

Anyways I got the wood for the extension so I will be setting it up this weekend.

P5se Camelback Wrote:Agreed, Brakie ... but you are not 16 and just getting started! As a youngun' he has much to learn and do over the next fifty years, but the best learning, especially at the beginning, is by doing, learning what works and what doesn't and then doing over!

Ask Green Elite Cab if that is not TRUTH. He' still young, still learning from redoing his first layout, and still redoing parts of it. But he has learned a lot of lessons.

When you get to be "our age," Brakie, we've made mistakes and we've rethought things and we realize that "this" layout will, in all likelyhood, be our last and we want it to be as "right" as possible right out of the box, so that we can ejoy operating it. A few changes on later will be acceptable, but we've already learned a lot of the "this is not gonna work" situations and we've designed around them.

Justin's still gotta learn ... and Gary S. will tell you that self-discovered principles stick with you better than spoon-fed ones do!

My biggest thing is I hate rework and waste and always did since its counter productive and we know what happens to a worker with lots of waste and rework-they're sent down the road swinging their lunch bucket and whistling Dixie as the old saying goes.

I would rather study,plan and rework the plan instead of rushing things and end up frustrated with wasted time,money and material.

In the the school of hard knocks and lessons learn I was the valedictorian but,not from rushing full throttle into projects-I usually lack the needed skills or some other foolheaded thing..

Brakie Wrote:...My biggest thing is I hate rework and waste and...

That is funny. I fully agree with you if we are talking about any thing serious like payed work etc. For me the permission to "rework" as often as I like is one of the outstanding attributes of a hobby. If I don't like it or change my mind of have anything else I can do what ever I want. That is a very high value for me because you can't do that at anything else then at the hobby. But the very best is that we can fully disagree and be very happy with that situation because it is hobby

Brakie Wrote:

P5se Camelback Wrote:Agreed, Brakie ... but you are not 16 and just getting started! As a youngun' he has much to learn and do over the next fifty years, but the best learning, especially at the beginning, is by doing, learning what works and what doesn't and then doing over!

Ask Green Elite Cab if that is not TRUTH. He' still young, still learning from redoing his first layout, and still redoing parts of it. But he has learned a lot of lessons.

When you get to be "our age," Brakie, we've made mistakes and we've rethought things and we realize that "this" layout will, in all likelyhood, be our last and we want it to be as "right" as possible right out of the box, so that we can ejoy operating it. A few changes on later will be acceptable, but we've already learned a lot of the "this is not gonna work" situations and we've designed around them.

Justin's still gotta learn ... and Gary S. will tell you that self-discovered principles stick with you better than spoon-fed ones do!

My biggest thing is I hate rework and waste and always did since its counter productive and we know what happens to a worker with lots of waste and rework-they're sent down the road swinging their lunch bucket and whistling Dixie as the old saying goes.

I would rather study,plan and rework the plan instead of rushing things and end up frustrated with wasted time,money and material.

In the the school of hard knocks and lessons learn I was the valedictorian but,not from rushing full throttle into projects-I usually lack the needed skills or some other foolheaded thing..

I have to agree with Reinhard, in this hobby, having the ability to make changes in direction anytime you feel the need can be fun and educational, but expensive. It's too easy to get caught up in engineering and planning of every detail. At some point that you need to throw caution to the wind and dive in, making changes on the run. Very often, you see 20 pages of a layout plan critiqued to death. Everyone wants it to be right the first time, but it rarely happens this way.

Unfortunately for me, I basically stop work on the layout in the spring and then revist my layout in late fall. What seemed really enjoyable when I left, seems boring when revisited. As a result, I have been redoing the same 20' of shelf every year. Costly, yes. However, a perfect plan is only as good as the interest it holds.

P5se Camelback Wrote:... Ask Green Elite Cab if that is not TRUTH...

The problem with these kinds of "truths" is that the opposite may very well be another "truth", not a false...


Andrew

faraway Wrote:

Brakie Wrote:...My biggest thing is I hate rework and waste and...

That is funny. I fully agree with you if we are talking about any thing serious like payed work etc. For me the permission to "rework" as often as I like is one of the outstanding attributes of a hobby. If I don't like it or change my mind of have anything else I can do what ever I want. That is a very high value for me because you can't do that at anything else then at the hobby. But the very best is that we can fully disagree and be very happy with that situation because it is hobby

I guess that thought never entered my mind seeing any rework cost money and waste- a thing I do my utmost to avoid after all replacing switch(es),track ballast etc cost money that could be spent on other hobby items such as that new sweet lookin' NS or Southern waffle boxcar.

Of course MR being a hobby that lacks guide lines one is free to pursue,redo,replace as he or she sees fit and as you noted everybody is happy.

Brakie Wrote:... etc cost money that could be spent on other hobby items...

I agree. That is the dark side of my behavior...
But I did focus more on time and effort. I like it to have an idea and do a quick and simple mock up from card stock. After that I like to redo it with styrene and add details etc. I really enjoy all the time doing the first and the second version. When I find out some weeks later that there might be some thing even more interesting to be placed at that spot I will very much enjoy building the third structure. You can watch how I constantly do that kind of low profile and (mostly) low cost restructuring.
Now, it depends very much on what you are doing. My simple structures are done within hours or some days. I would not build a top notch model of a steam engine over month and scrap it at 75% completion just to use the boiler for another model. That is another ball park.

The complete rebuild of the south yard this year is not "just for fun". I did serious planning mistakes on the track layout that need to be solved. That is not so much fun. I would have preferred to have a solid base (tracks etc.) and continue with the fun restructuring of buildings, streets, details etc.

Quote:I don't necessarily enjoy the planning stage, I guess I just like to dream

That's okay. We all like to dream from time to time. In the words of Disney's 'Carousel of Progress',

"...and when it becomes a reality, it's a dream come true, for you and me!"

Keep on dreaming, but build your dreams on steps of reality. Build and dream together, step by step.

Glad to hear you've got the lumber. I've been sitting on some for a while now and I'm itching to build again. But first, I've got a bridge to build...and a backdrop to install...and lighting to install...etc.

Galen

I now have all of the benchwork set up and I even have most of the track laid!

Later today I am thinking of running a test operating session to get a feel of how it will operate, Anyone have any ideas on how to operate the layout?

Here is an Industry List for the layout:

Owens-Corning Plastics
Maximum Capacity: 4 Cars
Ships: Boxcars of various plastic products
Receives: Covered Hoppers of plastic pellets

Warehouse(Still deciding on a name)
Maximum Capacity: 4 Cars
Ships: Boxcars of various goods
Receives: Boxcars of various goods

Team Track
Maximum Capacity: 3-4 Cars
Ships: Almost Anything
Receives: Almost Anything(Usually Lumber on Centerbeams)

Justinmiller171 Wrote:Anyone have any ideas on how to operate the layout?

Justin;

I'm assuming that this is the final version of the plan so we'll go with this:[attachment=7302]
It appears that you are intending to operate it like it was a separate company or spur where an engine would be kept and are using what could be the main line as an interchange track.

So using that theme as Option 1, I'd operate like this:
Engine stored on main by team track or even on the team track close to the road where the fuel truck can get to it.
Crew fires up the engine and runs lite to the interchange to pick up the inbound cars (probably 4 or 5 at most). You could either pull the interchange track and sort out the inbound cars on the spur, or if you have sufficient room (looks like you do) then you could sort them out between the interchange track and the spur. In this set up, it would be entirely up to you as to how you'd block out the cars and which industry would be switched first on the spur.
Once you get your cars blocked out, you shove down the spur and pull and place the cars at each track as required.
When all your outbound cars have been pulled, then you head back to the interchange and leave them there, then take the engine back and tie up for the day.
Pretty simple sounding, yet plenty of operation on a layout like this.

Personally, I'd use what we'll call Option 2 wherein we treat this like an industrial spur off the railroad main line. You have designed in a nice feature on the right hand side where you would be able to operate the train over a portion of the main line to reach the spur.
I'd stage the switch job in the upper right corner on the main (we'll call the top of the plan North). You have room there for an engine and 5-50ft cars. So in Option 2, the train would be coming down the main from the nearby yard to switch the spur. I'd even do like I've been doing on my layout and put a caboose on the end, so that conductor and brakeman would have a place to ride when shoving down the spur rather than having to hang on the end of the last car. Quite common on many industrial spur operations.
Train comes South on main and pulls past the industry spur switch. Line the switch for the spur, take off the derail and shove into the siding and then lock up and report clear of the main.
You would have your cars blocked in the train for the order you want to switch the industries. I'd have it (from rear of train): warehouse cars, team track cars and plastics cars and shove to the end of the spur and work my way back, but that's just one way it could be handled. Once again, it's your call on how you want to do it.
As before, once you have finished placing your inbound cars and pulling your outbound cars, you put the train together, do your air test and head back to the main line. After you get clearance from the dispatcher or yardmaster, you take off the derail, line the switch and pull on the main. Put the derail back on and line the switch for the main and shove the train back to the yard (staging area).

Also keep in mind, that you might not have cars for each industry every operating session. If you just want to have a short operating session (got to get to school soon!) then you might just have 1 inbound car to spot and 1 or none to pull. You can put a lot of variety into the operation that way. Got more time, then have an inbound and outbound car from each industry. You get the idea. You also can decide which industries must be switched on a daily basis and which ones less frequently. The team/trans-load track adds a lot of potential for a variety of inbound shipments too.

Regardless of which option you use and you have a plan that can used either way. This should be a fun layout to operate in a prototypical manner and you may be surprised just how long it takes to work the spur. Looks to me like at least a nice hour and a half for a typical operating session without having to resort to any time killing. Just operate at no more than 10mph on the spur, 4mph or less when coupling and perhaps stopping to flag your crossings and that's it.

Try it both ways or even alternate the way you operate it, for variety. I like this plan!