Justinmiller171 Wrote:I set up a mockup of the upper right portion of the layout, I tried operating it and I don't really know if I like it, I will try some different arraignments later.

Well that's the thing to do. Temporarily put down the track and try operating it and see how it works and feels. If it doesn't suit your overall plan, then try something else. Even with just those two industries, I'd have thought there would have been a fair amount of switching.

I've tried out the alternate version of my track plan where a trans-load track is located where I had the chocolates plant and moved the chocolates plant to where the lumber company spur was located; a simple matter of removing one of the structure mockups. After operating it a couple of times, I've decided to put things back the way they were. Same amount of operation in so far as the number of possible car spots, but the trans-load track just doesn't feel right for my industrial spur. Only big drawback so far is that I've fallen in to the old trap where I can actually operate the layout, so nothing else is getting done!

But remember, there is no rush! Think it through, try out some different track arrangements and/or potential industries before you settle on something final.

It wasn't the operations that were bothering me, it was that the area seemed too cramped and visually it looks a little too "artificial".

I plan on changing it to either an interchange track for when I run it as a short-line or a track leading to an "invisible industry" for when I run it as an industrial spur.

Justinmiller171 Wrote:It wasn't the operations that were bothering me, it was that the area seemed too cramped and visually it looks a little too "artificial".

I plan on changing it to either an interchange track for when I run it as a short-line or a track leading to an "invisible industry" for when I run it as an industrial spur.

Very well done That was the reason why I tried to "push" you to do some hardware. Brain and paper planning is one thing but seeing the real thing and getting a feeling for the dimensions and the optical impression is another thing.

Justin, I love the logo, but what design would go for steam era scenarios. I really do love the logo though.

How about this design for a Palmetto Spur type layout:



I realized that I made a typo on the plan. The 24 inch spur is for the third industry (industry C). The plan is for Atlas Snap Track with 18 inch radius Snap Switches. You don't have to include an engine house, but some place to put your engine when it's not running would be nice. I also envision an overpass on the left end of the layout with a ramp going down along the back drop finishing before the switch to Industry A.

You may also notice that there is a dotted line across the middle of the layout. This is where the hinge would be to fold the layout in half. I would mount the hinges on the top of the layout on small wooden blocks so that there will be clearance for the track when you fold the layout over while also protecting the track. I would cover the hinges with a small structure in the front and industry A in the rear. The structures and ramp would be removable and placed in a box when the layout is out of the way. The pillars for the ramp could double as stops for the layout so that the hinges aren't pushed past their limits and the layout remains stable while in storage.

The industrial spurs and interchange have a capacity for 13 cars total, but I would operate with no more than 4 cars at the interchange per operating session and no more than 4 cars in the spurs. You can use any number of ways to determine how many cars would be left at the interchange. I would use blank dice with the numbers 2, 3, and 4 written on 2 sides each to have a simple random number of cars to operate.

Mike,Out of curiosity why would you need a engine house seeing that a fuel dealer under contract could refuel the locomotive and any running repairs could be done by contract? Even in the steam era some industrial roads contracted everything out to cut overhead.

Larry...I would presume that on a small switching area like this one, the loco's engineers are also the mechanics, purchasing agents, and overall maintenance crew. So a little shed to do their job on the loco is nice to have.

I've never really delved much into this type of layout, but I see real interesting operational possibilities for this one, to the point where it could be incorporated into a larger layout via the interchange track.

Good job Mike..!!

Brakie Wrote:Mike,Out of curiosity why would you need a engine house seeing that a fuel dealer under contract could refuel the locomotive and any running repairs could be done by contract? Even in the steam era some industrial roads contracted everything out to cut overhead.

Hey Larry,
I'm just putting the engine house there as a way of keeping vandals from messing with the locomotive or to keep the locomotive from the elements or just to have a place to keep it out of the way. If I didn't put a spot for the engine house, I guess that I can just keep the engine stored on the end of the drill track.

Besides, at least the railroad would have office space. It doesn't have to go there.

Steamtrains Wrote:Larry...I would presume that on a small switching area like this one, the loco's engineers are also the mechanics, purchasing agents, and overall maintenance crew. So a little shed to do their job on the loco is nice to have.

I've never really delved much into this type of layout, but I see real interesting operational possibilities for this one, to the point where it could be incorporated into a larger layout via the interchange track.

Good job Mike..!!

Hey Gus, thanks for the compliment. I was also thinking that a connection could also be incorporated into the drill track at a later time.

Mike Kieran Wrote:

Brakie Wrote:Mike,Out of curiosity why would you need a engine house seeing that a fuel dealer under contract could refuel the locomotive and any running repairs could be done by contract? Even in the steam era some industrial roads contracted everything out to cut overhead.

Hey Larry,
I'm just putting the engine house there as a way of keeping vandals from messing with the locomotive or to keep the locomotive from the elements or just to have a place to keep it out of the way. If I didn't put a spot for the engine house, I guess that I can just keep the engine stored on the end of the drill track.

Besides, at least the railroad would have office space. It doesn't have to go there.

Sounds reasonable enough..A office with lunch room would fit nicely between the engine house switch and the interchange switch.

The diesel era could be a GE 44,45 or 70 tonner since these are small locomotives and for steam era a 0-4-0T or 0-6-0T would work..

As another thought the engine could be parked by one of the industries and their security guard can check the engine on his rounds.


Another thought a old tank car on a concrete foundation would work for the diesel fuel..

If the locomotive used on this layout is owned by one of the industries served by this layout, they might have a maintenance facility on site. If the locomotive is owned by the railroad and left in position to work these industries, they would probably just park it on a vacant spur or siding after the work was finished. The last time I was up there, probably 10 years ago, the BNSF had a Gp30 parked in a small yard next to the Victorville Amtrak Station. I presume that the crew that worked the local industries would show up at the job site, fire up the locomotive, and go to work on the local switching, and then park the locomotive when they were finished.

Russ wrote:
"I presume that the crew that worked the local industries would show up at the job site, fire up the locomotive, and go to work on the local switching"

Speaking of "firing up", I read somewhere a loooonngg time ago, that diesel locos were rarely shut down as it took several hours to fire 'em up again....Any truth to this..??

It may be true in some cases, but the Gp30 that I saw in Victorville was shut down I think, although since it was over 5 years ago, my memory may not be accurate. I can tell you from experience starting diesel engines that have run out of fuel on refrigeration units that the amount of time it takes to start up a diesel engine is nothing compared to the amount of time it takes to bleed the air out of a fuel system to get one started that has run out of fuel!

I'm not sure that it really is that big a deal to start a diesel unless the temps are really cold. I don't remember where I was, but I seem to remember being present when a diesel was fired up, and it didn't take a lot longer than it would to start a car. It seems to me that the engine was ready to go within 1/2 hour.

Steamtrains Wrote:Russ wrote:
"I presume that the crew that worked the local industries would show up at the job site, fire up the locomotive, and go to work on the local switching"

Speaking of "firing up", I read somewhere a loooonngg time ago, that diesel locos were rarely shut down as it took several hours to fire 'em up again....Any truth to this..??

No,they basically start like a truck in fact railroads shut down locomotives whever there's a long wait between runs to conserve fuel costs...In the winter the locomotives prime mover heater is plugged into a electrical outlet or a APU in order to keep the water system from freezing ...See: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.hotstart.com/home/products/locomotive-products/idle-reduction-solutions-2/apu-auxiliary-power-unit/">http://www.hotstart.com/home/products/l ... ower-unit/</a><!-- m -->

As far as having on site locomotive mechanic they would probably have a on call locomotive repair service that does on site repairs..

Brakie has a point though. A lot of shortlines would not have an engine house and save money by eschewing with an enginehouse. Like Brakie says, a diesel can be left out in the cold and plugged in to an engine block heater. I think that a steam engine would need to be stored indoors during cold weather because firing up a steam engine takes long enough without frozen water in the tubes. I've been around boilers that have been started from a dead cold and watched pipes burst in the process.

In the first drawing, I got rid of the enginehouse and decided to use a caboose on blocks for the crew lounge/railroad office. I have the drill track 22 inches long because that's the length of an EMD Switcher plus 2 50 foot cars (6 inches + 16 inches). A smaller switch engine plus 2 cars would be less space. If you use 40 foot cars, remember that each car is actually 6.5 inches long.

I've added a rough sketch of the highway overpass and ramp to fill out the scenery along the backdrop on the left side of the layout. The engine would reside under the overpass when it's not in use.



In the second drawing, I added a small yard on the right side (tracks D & E).

Mike,You could bank the locomotives fire and have a fireman on duty to attend the fire and act as a watchman-labor was cheaper back then.

I still like the small office idea.